Halloween: What Are We Really Celebrating?

Welcome back to another episode of The Beauty in Burnt Toast. Today, we are talking all things Halloween. Whether you believe in celebrating, whether you don't, we're going to hit all the facts, where it originated, and what do we do with it? How do we handle it as Christians?

So, we have joining us Lindsey Camper and Melissa Reynolds. You have seen them both on the podcast before, and we're just going to have a group discussion of what we believe and what the Bible says. So, let's get into it. Lindsey, do you want to start us out? Where do you want to go from here?

Sure. Halloween's a topic that always comes up every year if you live in America. So, that's something that I've really been researching and studying out.

It really came because we were walking It was like way early, and we were walking It was still I mean, it's still hot outside, but there was some Halloween candy, and I text Jade.

I was like, "This would be a great podcast episode today because there's a lot of different opinions floating around about Halloween. You hear stuff.

Like, I saw this video of Forest Frank that's like, he pretty much like, "I don't want to celebrate Halloween." You know, and then you see other people who do, so you're kind of like, you know, and you hear all this stuff.

Like, literally, there's so much stuff that you hear, and I'm somebody that really values facts. Yeah.

So, I did a little research about Halloween.

Yeah, why don't you start us out with the history of how it got started?

Where Halloween Comes From: Samhain and the Celts

There's a very blended history when it comes to Halloween and how we experience it today. And where it first originated was literally like over 3,000 years ago with the Celtic people and it was a festival called Samhain.

You probably heard that word before and it was a festival that marked the end of their harvest which makes sense because we're entering into harvest time, but it marked the end of harvest and heralded in the winter which also is associated with death because now we have electricity, we have heaters, we have fireplaces, but back then of course they didn't have that so winters are really harsh.

Winters was when a lot of people died. And so it was a really important festival to them because it was like a celebration but also a beginning of a different season.

And you know, they did a lot of things. These Celtic people, they were pagans, you know, they worshipped gods that they created and they did some different things and things that we see today.

They had some priests called the Druids and they would have like huge bonfires and in those bonfires they would make sacrifices a lot of times to those gods and it would be for like good fortune for the time that is coming and they also had this belief during this time that that the veil was like super thin like from this our our world and then the spirit world.

So they thought that during this time the spirits was they were they were around them like they were able to communicate with them and it wouldn't it wasn't just the spirits but it was of the dead, too. Yeah.

So they would also like sometimes they would dress up and back then they didn't have any kind of costume so they would literally kill animals. Wear terrifying masks.

Yeah, they would wear they would make them from animals, you know. And if any of y'all watched Scary Movies growing up, you saw weird stuff like that, yeah.

And so they would come up with their own like costume from animals and stuff but it wasn't just like dress up, it was to mask themselves so they even knew that some of the spirits were not friendly. Yeah.

There are different levels of spirits, different kinds of spirits, and so they would want to disguise themselves so you wouldn't be harmed by a mean spirit, a spirit. So, and they would also do fortune telling during this time.

That was something that they liked to do, speaking with the dead, things like that. So, that's most of the things that they did.

All Saints' Day, All Souls' Day, and the Name Halloween

So, that's how it all started, and then hundreds and hundreds of years later, the Romans come on the scene, and the Catholic Church is established during this time, and they start conquering some of the Celtic land, but they establish a holiday called All Saints' Day.

And All Saints' Day was just a day that commemorate the saints and the martyrs had died for the Catholic for the Christian faith. And so, then it kind of blended.

They as they were conquering these lands, they developed another day called All Souls' Day, which it was actually on the day that they celebrated Samhain.

And the reason that they did that, though, a lot of people believe is because it was a day that they celebrated the dead, and I have personally experienced this.

The Catholic Church at times, and how I've experienced it in other countries, like Guatemala and in Africa, they like to come to a culture that already exists and start incorporating it into their religion. So, they're like, "Oh, you like to celebrate the dead hold today?

Well, let's just Christianize this a little bit. So, they feel more welcome to if that makes sense." I saw it, you know, we saw that in Guatemala.

They used to have They used to worship these Aztec gods, and for penance, they would have to like crawl on their hands and knees to like these temples. Like, that's what they did there until they were like bleeding and all this stuff.

So, now what they do is the Catholic Church has these huge floats that they decorate, and this is like around Halloween. They have these huge floats that they decorate and that people to like for their penance, they carry them on their shoulders.

So, it's like a incorporation of the church. So, that's kind of like blend. So, before that and then after that they established on the eve of all this it was going to be called All Hallows' Day, which eventually became the word Halloween. So, it's a blend.

It's a blend of paganism, a blend of Christianity. But, even all of those days still look different as to like the Americanized holiday today cuz in America we like to like capitalize on everything, consumerism, let's make this about candy about buying costumes for your dogs.

Like I read that like people spend millions every year like record breaking amounts on costumes for their dogs. That is so funny.

For their dogs. For their dogs. Not kids, their dogs.

All right then. We just have our priorities all in line, don't we? Yeah. Yeah.

Does the Bible Say the Veil Is Thinner in October?

So, I'm trying to think where I want to go with this first. One of the big things that I wanted to discuss, and I know I told you this, was the fact that the veil is thinner during this time of the year. So, I know I think Sowin, is that right? Sawin? Sawin? means summer's end, is what I read. And so, it gets darker and they believe the spirits come in and they believe the the veil is thinner. But, what does the Bible actually say about that? It does not.

Scripture never tells us that October 31st makes that realm closer, more accessible, or more powerful. And an interesting biblical contrast is with the world word veil itself.

Because the biblical veil we should probably paying attention to isn't a seasonal veil between humans and spirits. The temple veil separated the holy place from the most holy place. Then in Matthew 27:51, the veil was torn when Jesus died.

So, the veil connects us with God's presence. So, when people say veil, I don't think that's really a good term to use because the spiritual world and our world are kind of one in the same.

Like there's no thinning and there's no thickening, whatever, that sounds weird, but you you know what I mean.

It's not like we have the spiritual world world here and the natural world here. Like literally they're concurrent, they're at the same time. It is literally physically here, not in like a faraway place. It's Right. Right.

Yeah, and that's what I have too. The torn temple veil does not mean the barrier between the physical and spiritual realm was removed. So, the emphasis is our access to God through Christ, not unrestricted access between two dimensions.

The 3:00 a.m. Witching Hour and What Scripture Says

Also in all of this, I wanted to ask about 3:00 a.m. So, that is known to be a time called the devil's hour or the witching hour. A time of greater authority. Do y'all have any experience with that?

When I was doing witchcraft and Wicca and stuff when I was younger, 3:00 a.m. was when we we we would stay up and that's when we would do a lot of the things that we were trying to access, you know, like trying to find that supernatural experience.

And so, the the scarier things that I experienced with witchcraft happened around that time. Maybe it was like 3:01, but you know, like it was always around that time because it's when we were seeking it the most, you know, it wasn't really because 3:00 3:00 a.m. is a scary time. You know, so it's that's not that's not a thing, you know. I mean, it's a it I it can be a thing. Do you know why 3:00 a.m. is the time? No, I don't I don't remember why. The tradition developed around 3:00 a.m. supposedly is an inversion of 3:00 p.m. traditionally associated with Christ's death. Yes. So, that's Interesting. folklore, but you know, the devil's always going to go against Yeah. the Lord, so any spiritual thing, there's always a kind of counterfeit.

I was talking to a girl that used to be a witch, and we were having a really good conversation, and she was talking about how some people practice here in America, and we were talking about how, you know, in Africa, I saw a lot of like blatant witchcraft, people manifesting demons, like things like that.

And we were talking about why it's so much more apparent, but you know, there's a counterfeit for everything that Christ does.

I've never heard that about the time, but you know, I never put this together, but you know, in Uganda or in Africa and countries, a lot of other countries, they still believe that you have to use pure blood for sacrifice. Yeah.

So, they'll take babies and infants and use their blood for the sacrifice, but it's because it's a counterfeit for the blood of Jesus. Mhm.

And I never like put that together till she said that, and I was like, "Wow."

The fourth watch of the night was roughly 3:00 to 6:00 a.m. It's the darkest and coldest hour just before dawn breaks. In scripture, it is frequently depicted as a time of sudden divine intervention, deliverance, and testing coming to an end.

Many people dedicate the specific window to focused prayer, often referring to it as commanding the morning or watchman prayer. Because the physical world is quietest during these hours, it is treated as an ideal time for silent meditation and worship.

In Matthew 14:25, it places Jesus walking on the water during the fourth watch. The parting of the Red Sea was in the morning watch. So, scripture certainly contains important things that happen at night. It just doesn't establish 3:00 a.m. as Satan's appointment slot.

And there are ordinary psychological reasons that people wake during that time, too. So, just so you know, waking at 3:07 doesn't automatically mean there's a demon in the hallway. But, there are reasons that we call 3:00 a.m. the witching hour, whatever it it may be.

So, I just thought that was all interesting because I hear that so often. Oh, well, what time did it happen? Like, what time did you wake up? What time were you feeling this way? Was it 3:00 a.m., you know? So,

Melissa's 3:00 a.m. Story

It's funny when my sister was before she had passed away, she had pancreatic cancer and she was really young. So, it was like a really crazy thing and they tried to do surgery on her, couldn't get it out.

So, we're we're we're trying to find cures for her and I was waking up at 3:00 in the morning on the dot for a week.

And I was I was helping my friend with her hair one night and I told her that and she goes, "Well, did you ever think that maybe cuz I was like exhausted?" And I was like, "Why do I I just don't know why I keep waking up that early." And then I And then I just stay awake for like an hour and then I just go back to sleep.

And she's like, "Well, maybe it's the Lord waking you up." And of course, I was like, "Oh, right. Duh. Why didn't I I didn't even think about it." Like, I was just like, "Why am I awake?" instead of like being like, "Lord, are you saying?" So, I woke up at 3:00 a.m. that night again and I just said, "Lord, heal my sister. Take all of her pain away." That's all I said and then I fell right back asleep. Didn't wake up again at 3:00 a.m. after that. And then she had a very incredible supernatural experience.

So, the next day, this man that I know who he he operates in the the gift of healing wild and and and and the gift of discernment and just it's amazing.

And so, he calls me and he goes, "Melissa, I was thinking about you this morning when I was praying." He was like, "I I haven't And we hadn't talked in a year." And he said, "I just How's How How are things? Is everything okay?

How's your life?" And I like my sister has pancreatic cancer and she's 36. She has three kids and I was like and she's suffering and she's in pain and I was like I just I could you pray for her? And he goes, well, could I call her?

And I was like, I mean, she's not really a Christian. I was like, but you know, you're and he goes, well, I'll be less weird. Yeah.

You know, I just want to call her. I was like, yeah, I guess. And then it wasn't until I called my sister and I said, hey, I've got this friend. He wants to call you and just talk to you for a little bit if that's okay. And she's not She wasn't a Christian at the time. So she was like I'm like yes. She's like, I mean, I have to work and then I've got this scan at 3:00.

When she said, I've got a scan at 3:00, my brain finally clicked on and I was like I said that prayer this morning at 3:00 in the morning and then this man called and now he's trying to talk to my sister who doesn't know Jesus yet and she's going for a scan at 3:00 this afternoon.

I was like I was like, Danielle, I was like, I don't care what you do. You better let this guy call you before you go for your stupid scan. And she was like okay. And so I called her back after they were supposed to talk and and I said, you know, how did it go?

And she and she started crying and she said, he knew things about me and things that I thought that I've never even said out loud to my husband.

And she was like, he knew all of these things that I had been saying quietly to something in the air and she was like, she said, I I don't even know what to do. And she was like shaking while she was talking to me. I was like, yeah, I was like, that's the Lord.

And I was like, how's your pain? And she goes, I have no pain right now. She had had nothing but pain for a year and a half and for the last six months before she died, she had almost no pain until like a week before she passed away. Wow.

And so anyway, so there so that 3:00 a.m. thing, I mean, you know, in my opinion can, you know, everything the enemy uses for evil, the Lord can turn for good. And so that 3:00 a.m. wake up was I thought maybe it was me being bothered by, you know, the enemy was just trying to steal my sleep, but I didn't realize that it was the, you know, kind of like when Samuel was being called by the Lord. He's like, Samuel.

And he kept going to Eli and he's like what what? And he's like, I don't think it's me, buddy. You should just talk to the Lord. So that's, you know, so so I think that with that 3:00 a.m. time, I think that the enemy, you know, where there is light, darkness can't prevail, and the light was in me, so that darkness wasn't trying to It was the Lord. He was just kind of reworking that because that 3:00 a.m. was such an important time back when I was into those kinds of things, so. Yeah. Right.

Growing Up in Witchcraft and Wicca

What type things were you doing at 3:00 a.m.?

Back then, it was like This is really going to age me, but we really just didn't have the internet the way we do now, so Amazon didn't exist. You know, so right? A world without Amazon. a very strange time. And so if we wanted so like my if we wanted specific herbs to do specific because a lot of witchcraft and Wicca is really it's like holistic things.

You know, a lot of times so so spells I mean, there were some spells that we would look into that did have animal sacrifice and stuff like that into it, but I don't think I just The Lord is so good. We just never really got that brief. Yes.

Yeah. I liked animals too much and I'm like, I don't know if I can I don't have the heart for that.

So we kind of stayed more towards the things that like, you know, cuz that movie The Craft, I don't know if you guys ever saw that movie, but it was 100 years Yes.

The Craft was really popular at the time, which is why she and I started looking into it, but I also you know, like I think I talked about this before, I never tried to fill that God-shaped hole with like sex and drugs and physical things.

It was always searching for something, some kind of spiritual experience because I loved movies and I'm like, man, I feel like that stuff can be real. It has to be real. Like it's so many you know, so like I was always looking for it like that.

So when I saw The Craft, I was like, this has to be real. And when we started looking on the internet, which back then Yeah, yeah. was Ask Jeeves. We didn't have Google. Whatever.

And so we get on Ask Jeeves and we would, you know, type all these things out and and then we'd find these, you know, it was not a lot available cuz the internet was still being built, so it was not very much, but the things that we did find were like, oh, and then we started to really get into it because my heart and mind has always been super analytical, so we started looking at, how do we like actually do a spell, you know, like like I can't remember the word that that we used it we didn't call them spells, but incantations, things like that.

And so we'd find So we we we'd get my mom to take us to like a plant store. We'd be like, "Yeah, we just want to like look at random things." But then we would be looking specifically for certain herbs or plants, certain things like that. And then at 3:00 a.m. we would just sit there and we would, you know, like do the stuff that we read in that article on the internet. So, we would like grind it, and we would mix it with, you know, this this water stuff that we made, you know, like all these things.

Just trying to create something to see if, you know, if it would do anything. And most of it was most of the time it was about, you know, trying to get the guy that we liked to like us, you know, or whatever. The thing not for me, her.

But she was she was super cute, so I was I was a very awkward chubby child, so I it didn't really work for me. So, it didn't really work for me. It was about 2 and 1/2 years. We started like our freshman year of high school, and then by my junior year I had met Jesus.

I wasn't really serving the Lord yet. I wasn't really like a Christian yet, but I had I had a I had a short period where I was really an atheist because I got scared.

I started to see some really creepy stuff and experience some really creepy things, and it was enough to scare me away from it. I went, "You know what? I don't think this is real. I think I'm just going to be an atheist." Because I was because it freaked me out.

And that's the And of course that's like the grace of God because I think that he just he held me. He let me see just enough to know that there's something out there, but scared He knows He knew back then back then. I'm not as much of a coward now.

But back then I was so freaked out. I was like, "Nope, don't want it. Hate this. This is terrible." You know, so and then after that I started to go to church with my friend, and then eventually, you know, gave my heart to the Lord.

But it was But it was a when I when I gave my heart to the Lord it was such a radical conversion, and I'd had those experiences that I started I really was still thinking about those things.

And I had also had, which we can talk about it later, but I've had a very specific and I Listen, I'm not a super spiritualist. I'm not somebody that feels like everything's a demon, but there has there there was this thing that was following me since I was 12 years old.

And I've seen it for sure three times, and then it was confirmed in a random way when I was like 31 or 32 years old and so so I know that those spiritual things are there.

So when I did come to Jesus, I was going to a a church at the time that didn't really have a lot of they just they didn't really welcome the theology of demons and they're like yeah, they exist but you know, like Right. the way that they exist. And so I was I I wasn't I wasn't satisfied with that.

I wanted to know about those things because you can't tell me that Jesus did this miraculous thing and came back to life and then went about up in heaven and his coming back to life was not just recorded in just the Bible.

It's also in like regular text that have nothing to do with with spiritual things with theology. And so you're telling me that that happened and then but like we're not thinking about the demons and the angels and like are you kidding me right now?

We we like this cool this whole existence that it you know, this whole thing that exists and we're not even like going So anyway, so my that witchcraft experience when I came into the Lord because I had seen those things caused me to still kind of chase that stuff not because I'm you know, like trying to have an like just experience

I like What do you mean? that that the Lord said we get to cast out demons but then they don't really exist. We never see them. Yeah.

How are we how are we not casting out demons? That should be something we're doing on the regular and and so

What did Halloween mean to you when you were practicing?

We just I mean it was it was when we got our coven. There was like four of us two of us two of them I don't even think really were doing it. I think they were just doing it cuz we were all friends and they're like let's do it. It's a coven. We're witches.

And so anyway, we oops, sorry. So we just came together. We wore If my friend finds out she's a Christian now too and we're really close. If she hears this she's going to start laughing cuz it's embarrassing.

But we we would like wear only drape we'd like drape fabric around us. And then we would like we would sit there and talk about the things that we want and then we would like do a few things and then we would go watch scary movies. So it was you know, we were we were still only doing it and we hadn't really crossed I think we just never crossed the threshold of being worshipers of the goddesses and gods that come with that lifestyle. the thing is, at that age, I mean, it was kind of fun for y'all.

I mean, it's like, we're just hanging out. Like, this is no big deal, but y'all didn't realize what a big deal it actually can be if you get super deep into it.

We were like, "Oh, we're done. We don't We hate this."

How a Scary Maybe Opens the Door

I think it's good. There's like a really important pattern to notice here for people who are listening and for us is that it literally started with this scary maybe. Mhm.

You know, I read a quote while I was reading throughout this, and I'm probably going to butcher it, but it was by Matthew Henry, and he said basically, this is Lindsey paraphrasing, he said, "We can be so busy and like not worrying about things, like thinking it's just no big deal, that we will find ourselves in sin that will literally devour us." That. Yes.

I think that it started with a scary maybe, and you saw it, you know, I what I mean, K-pop demon hunters, all these things, whatever. I mean, not even just that, there's all kinds of things out there. I watched I mean, we binged scary maybes and eight page drinks when I was a kid. Like, it's innocent. but you think like, "Ah, we're just watching this scary maybe." Or "Ah, it's just a toy that looks a little weird." Or and then but your kids might be curious, and then they're like, "Oh, it's no big deal. We're just going to get this boy to like us.

Like, what's different than this and wishing upon a shooting star, you know?" And then you find yourself you literally said that scary things started happening cuz you opened up that door.

Because that's the thing, it's like, okay, you you opened up the door and said, "I'm going to be a witch, and I'm going to do these things, and I'm seeking things over the other powers that are not of the Lord." You may not even know what those powers are.

You didn't know it was Satan and his army, probably.

But you opened up that door, and it was enough to scare you where you were like, "Whoa." And so, I think that's really important to hear because we can think that things are not a big deal, it's just something little, but you don't know what you just flung a door open to, and you can be too late.

And once those things enter into your life, unless you have the blood of Jesus, and you don't know what you just opened yourself up to.

Images, Triggers, and Being Vigilant

Well, it's it's what images and things do to us and do to our spirit because like now if I'm watching something it can have a scene in there and it can affect me so much like it's almost painful. You can't

Like it hurts. Yes. Yeah, and it's just ingrained in your Yep. brain. Like Courtney and I were talking I watched the Jim Caviezel movie about child trafficking last night and I was just thinking about the things that that guy saw. Like how do you live because those things affect your spirit like they infect you internally. I just

I think God gives some people a special grace like all throughout the scripture we see that there are you know, I was just talking to my husband about a scripture that says make sure it's Paul he's saying make sure that you discern the measure of faith that you've been given.

I was like what does this mean but we all have a different measure of grace and faith inside of our lives. And we have to realistically look at it. So I have to say Lindsey, do you have the grace to research demons and figure out all this stuff about witchcraft and all this?

Is that the grace in my life to do that? Is it the grace in my life to be on the front lines of child trafficking? You know, we don't have to open ourselves up to every evil thing in this world because if we did I think we would crumble under it.

You know, we have to discern what lane we're supposed to run in. You know. Yeah.

And those things are triggers too. Like we we think it's an like like you were saying we think it's an innocent thing but I mean like just to be kind of open and frank. Yeah.

When I was still young in the faith so I was I was in full-time ministry but I was still struggling really deeply with things that I you know, like I wasn't I didn't grow up a Christian so there were when I became a Christian I had 19 years worth of things that had to like fall off of me it was a lot.

And so I had a massive addiction to pornography and so when I would what I was what I finally started to see the pattern of is I would watch a scary movie Right.

Then, I would binge eat a ton of food. And then, I would watch pornography. Mhm.

And then, I would watch a scary movie. I would binge eat, watch pornography, watch a scary And I didn't really realize it until one day I had kind of confessed everything to a friend of mine.

And she goes, "What do you think happens that makes you like run to this thing?" And I was like, "Oh, I don't I don't think it's anything specific.

I think it's just whatever." And she's like, "Well, pay attention." And I started to watch and I started to see the pattern that it wasn't just that I was like going back to pornography afterwards, but I was also eating a ton.

Like, and then when I wouldn't watch anything scary for a long time, this I'm not even kidding, the pattern didn't even like register at all.

And so, we don't even realize that those little those tiny little things, they can trigger sin after sin after sin and you don't even realize why.

Like, it's it's it's it's like, you know, if you're if something silly happens at work and you get mad and then when you're driving home, you're yelling at the traffic because you're already mad about this and so now you're you're cutting people off and you're cussing and you're Snowball effect.

And then you get home and then you're you're you and your husband get in a fight or your kids are annoying you so much that you can't even handle it anymore. And then by the end of the night, you have an emotional breakdown and you can't even breathe because why?

Because that one little thing, you know, clicked off all these things.

And so, I realized that that even just watching a scary movie became a trigger where every time I did, I I knew and even today with if there's something that I'll watch that's, you know, my friend's like, "Oh, this is really good." And then I watch it and it's kind of scary.

I I like become vigilant and that's one of the things that I was going to say is that like we we do we accidentally fall into these things cuz we're not paying attention, but Paul and Jesus himself, both they were both very firm about being vigilant, being purposeful about how you're living your life.

I think sometimes we're so afraid to look like the crazy Christian who doesn't do anything and the crazy Christian that has all these these things. Yeah, well, yep. The the gate is wide, but the road is narrow. Right.

And so, like are we are we trying to go to the narrow gate? Are we trying to just like do the popular cool Christian thing? Yeah.

Because those are two different things. They they're like they're not the same.

And so, you know, even with this Halloween thing and like doing, you know, as we talk and I know that we're going to talk more about it, but you know, even even concerning that, like if it's a conviction for you and you feel like you shouldn't be doing it, then you should just not do it regardless of what your friend is doing.

Regardless of what, you know, because the Lord like the Lord is clear, be vigilant, be purposeful. Like every decision that you make should be something that you go, "Would this please the Lord? Why am I doing this?

Okay, this wouldn't." And I'm not going to do it, you know, like not everything is going to be conviction. Sometimes you give up things because you love him enough that you don't care That's true. if you're convicted about it or not. You're better than that thing, you know, and so

The Fear of the Lord Without Fear of Everything

How can we take spiritual deception seriously without making people afraid of everything? talk about it later, but the fear of the Lord helps with that. Yeah.

When you when you know him and you love him when all of those things start to come up that you're supposed to lay down, that you're supposed to, you know, like those kinds of things, it becomes not an act of fear or anxiety, it becomes an act of love.

So, you know, you you stop the constant drinking because you love him so much that the drinking you you like fear that the Lord is there. You understand.

I always try to explain it to people as Esther like hopefully people understand that Esther is kind of a it's a the word is tupos, so it's a it's a it's a parallel to our relationship with the Lord. She was intimate with Xerxes. He knew her body, she knew his.

They knew like she she gave her she gave him her thoughts. They would, you know, they were flirty, they loved each other. It says that he loved her. Like they were in love with each other, but when she approached his throne, she was fully aware that he was the king.

Like he was both at the same time. He was her lover and he was her king.

And she knew that when she approached his throne, that she had to come knowing that he loved her, but also with the realization that if he decides to say no and take her head, this is this is a very big possibility.

And so, not that the Lord will take our head, but the reality is is that he's such a good God and he loves us so much and that love is so deep, but he is also still a righteous judge and he's also still the king.

So, you have to you have to approach it with the fear of the Lord, knowing that his love is good, knowing that his love is big.

So, you lay it down because of his love, and you understand that it it's it's because he's so good that why would you hold on to the things he's asking you to lay down. To not be afraid of it. It's not I'm not afraid of pornography. I'm not afraid of it.

I have laid it down because I love him so much that I know that he's way better than all the sexual things. All of the even even like with scary movies I used to be my favorite thing. Like I said, my family grew up in it.

I am happy to lay those down because he is so much better than the things that are offered. And so, I think part of one of the ways I'm sure there's lots of ways, but one of the ways to remain at peace and not be afraid of everything is to understand his love.

To understand that even if you do sin, his love doesn't disappear. You know, understanding that you never earned it, so you can't possibly like decide who keeps and who doesn't. He's the one who does.

And and he says it in Romans 8, you know, that there is nothing that can separate us from the love of God.

So, if that's true, then even if you do accidentally pick it up again and you accidentally do it again, it doesn't separate you, but you do you know, you learn that, but he is king.

So, I love him because I'm going to give it up because I love him, but also he's king, so I'm going to be I'm going to be obedient because he can be both. And we just have to be able to make him both. We We can do it with each other. I know you're a mom. I know you're a friend.

I know that you're a podcast person. I know that you sell realty. You exist as that person all in one. I can accept that, but we have a hard time accepting that God can exist as both.

He can absolutely love us perfectly and still be the king who expects us to lay down our our will for his and so

I mean, like a father, you know, obeying what you're supposed to do and get punished when you do wrong, you know? I think it always kind of falls back into education, too. And just being educated about how things work.

What Halloween Looks Like Today

But, speaking of education, let's kind of jump back into our current Halloween holiday and what it looks like and what the celebrations look like.

Yeah, I think that, you know, what she just touched on is so important.

Ephesians 5:15-16 says, "Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise, but as wise, making the best use of your time because the days are evil." Like, we have to look carefully at how we walk day by day, where our feet are going, because it the days are evil.

And it's hard to think that you're like, "I'm just going to a T-ball game. I'm just going to a fall festival. I'm just You know, I'm we're just going living our lives. Are they really that evil?" They're evil. Yeah. tells us they're evil. And the fact that we don't realize the spiritual warfare, the spiritual world that we're in right now, that is evidence that it's evil, because we are blinded by the great deceiver, you know?

But so yeah, how how we celebrate Halloween today, and everybody can pitch into this, but if I go to the store, like it's not just we can say like, "Oh, we're just celebrating fall." It's not like that for our whole culture.

Because when I get to the store, there are costumes like aisles that I avoid because I don't want my kids to be You know, we have all either intentionally, unintentionally, whatever. Sometimes when our kids stumble upon something, you can't undo it. YouTube. Always on YouTube. Yes. Yeah.

And there are so many kid things right now that are terrifying, like Huggy Wuggy and Five Nights at Freddy's and all that kind of stuff that they kind of play off as innocent, but it's terrifying for adults, you know?

Yeah, and you just don't want, you know, to impart that. But as you go through the store right now, that's all you see. So, I would say Halloween for the most part, like culturally Americanizing, it's a lot about skeletons, which is death.

There's bats, black cats, which is all associated with, you know, different things that they used to believe luck, you know, we talked about that in the discussion. You know, you go through all the things.

You know, my daughter we were Aldi Aldi and we're going through Aldi she's like oh look there's bubbles and it was literally a cauldron with like the stuff and I was like you know, is that going to hurt her just noticing that? No, but that's just our culture today.

We see it on everything. Everything is spooky fear base. You know, but there's also good things. You know, like people do trick or treats. People do fall festivals. Are those bad things? No. I mean, you're just going and you're celebrating.

Now do you want your kid to walk up to someone that literally has like a scream mask on and like all those things, you know? No, but it's out there and that's the kind of costumes that we see.

Of course we see Paw Patrol, we see the fireman, we see the policeman, but we also see literal demons. Like we see people dressing up as Satan.

You know, so I think that we have to realize that as much as we want to make Halloween out to be like a good thing and not not every family the way that it's celebrated is a good thing. You know, so I think that we have to look at it realistically.

Haunted Houses and Judgment Houses

Well, I want to know how y'all feel about haunted houses. Like like just the just the idea of haunted houses going to haunted house participating. So there used to be and I cannot remember for the life of me what it was called churches used to do kind of like what Flame Heaven's Gates? No, it was called something else. Judgment House.

Judgment House. That's what it was called around here. Yeah. Okay.

But it was it was heaven and hell. So I mean, what is I mean, I know there's a big difference, but do y'all think doing that as a church is okay?

I don't think Jesus ever scared people to him. You know, I think his approach was love. His approach was very realistic. He's like don't follow me unless you're ready to lay down your life. Like he was very much like there are two places.

There's heaven with my father and then there's hell. Like you serve me, you belong to me, you have to lay down your life, but he never used a scare tactic to get somebody to him.

Because that's if I kid only loves me or like is good because I beat him every night if he's not, then that's not real love. That's just him being afraid.

Yeah, but also I'm thinking like some people don't necessarily realize what in what they're going to be getting into when it comes to hell. I mean, they just don't have the realistic picture.

So, is seeing something like that a wake-up call to this could be the rest of my life, you know? Maybe. I don't know. There's flip side. Yeah. Christ, they're in a judgment house.

And I don't even remember It's been so long since I've been to one. I remember like what it actually looks like. I remember it I think being a little bit scary. I don't know. Have y'all been to them before?

I've been to some. And I remember like wanting to get saved at them. They But I was afraid to But it just instilled a fear of hell which Yeah. already had which is what a lot of people think if I can just like not go to hell. Like, I'll I believe Jesus died on the cross. Now I ask him into my heart. I'm saved. I'm good. Right.

And I feel like that kind of promotes that almost because it's like you're just like that's where you could go. a lukewarm faith.

Yeah. It wasn't But I'm That's not faith. That's not That's not what Jesus says. He says, "I don't even know you." You know, in Matthew, "Depart from me on the day of judgment." That's not Mhm. actual Christianity. You know, so I think there's some people who probably genuinely had a relationship because the Holy Spirit can work in anything, especially when his word is preached like it is authoritative. It's sharper than a double-edged sword.

You know, it can do all of that. But at the same time, like if you're just afraid to go to hell, that doesn't mean you're in a relationship with Jesus. Even the demons know Jesus. That's true. That is true.

And they believe that he's real. You know, they know he's coming back too. They all believe that. But what sets you apart is making the lordship.

Yeah. Have y'all been to haunted houses before? Yeah.

Everybody? Yeah. Have you been to a lot of them? Is that what that means? Yeah.

So, what is your experience your experience in those and what do you what do you think about them?

I I like the fear. Like I like being scared. But also I have you know like we've talked about a little bit I've got ADHD so I've got dopamine Yeah.

But like I like I I think they're kind of hilarious sometimes and just silly and fun and most of them are you know jump tactics. Yeah.

Now I like I have walked out of them before when it becomes demonic and disgusting.

Like some of them are just are just like I went to Halloween Horror Nights one year a while back with a friend and she just wanted to go alone so I was like yeah I'll go with you and we did the show that was on HBO and was really popular video game. You know what I'm talking about? The Last of Us or The Last of Us?

Us. The Last of Us. And so we went through that one and that one's kind of a silly thing because it's about like mutated mutated people and so they're you know like the costumes. A lot of people just like the rush that you know like it's fun cuz they're jumping out.

But like there was one that was about the exorcism and it was Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And and so now I I feel like this is the hard part because I I know that there are a lot of people who are going to watch this and they're going to be like what do you mean you you like being scared and you know you like those things.

It's it's for me I'm able to separate the real from the fake. I'm able to I also am highly discerning and I have a very sensitive spirit to things. Right.

So in those moments like if I know that it's that I'm not going to do it I'm not going to do it. You know like my my friend will go through the thing her by herself because I'll be like I can't I'm not that we can't do this one.

And she's also like a wonderful Christian who loves Jesus and she didn't go in it either or whatever but you know it was more of an entertainment factor than it was like that I'm craving something Yeah. horror related and and us spending time together. We rode more rides than we did go through

For me, growing up, you wanted to go with guys cuz you were scared and it got you closer to the guy. So, haunted like what You don't know who's in those haunted houses. Like, what if somebody's done like I don't know, spelled up and like they're touching you.

So, I actually used to go to this haunted house that was somewhere between Athens and Florence and you had to sign a waiver and they could touch you. So, they would like pick you up and throw you down an operating table and use a fake chainsaw and like put it up to you.

Like, that's the kind of stuff that you would experience. So, yeah, and I don't I don't know why now, but yes, I don't think it's still around anymore. I can't imagine even why that was allowed, but They have They have some that are

My niece went to one at the Shawshank Prison of Ohio or wherever that is. And my parents wouldn't sign that waiver, but my niece did. And so, they were all friends There's There's some really good

And these people are touching you and you don't know what they've been doing and what they could Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah. Right. I like so now, like right now as I am, I probably wouldn't go to a haunted a haunted house game like that. But, I do think like my parents, like I said, I grew up in that like that was just like a part of my childhood like all the scary stuff.

And so, but I do, even in the last like three or four years, have become even more sensitive to the Lord because of some of the new things he's doing in me. And so, I think that that, you know, like I don't know. I don't know that I would do it now.

You know, back then it was fun. It was ridiculous. But, like now, I don't know that I have a heart for that. Like, I don't want to experience those things anymore.

I don't think I could. Like, physically. Yeah, apart from the spiritual

I mean, I I went to one in high school and it was like a clown chasing you out with like a chainsaw or something. And I mean it was like I guess for me I didn't ever put it in the context that it was like demonic because it was just like, okay.

Well, I grew up with a lot of horror movies and stuff, too, but I also grew up Christian, so it was a very I got a taste of both sides of it and then just partaking in like haunted corn mazes and things like that.

There was a fascination there, but we did a my family and I did a really big one in Europe in London and it was like really well known and you have to like hold the person in front of you as like as like you were in a line and you just run through it and it was just it was awesome.

I'm not going to lie, but it wasn't demonic. So, for me it's like I've never felt that, but again, you can go to an like a a horror nights or something at an amusement park and you don't know who the scare people are, the scare actors.

You don't know if what they practice or anything, so

Praying Through Every Decision

it's important to realize too that if Eve was deceived in the garden, how much more easily we can be deceived?

And say, "Oh, I'm definitely not going to do the ring." Or "I'm definitely not going to do this thing." But like I have to know like Lindsey right here right now, there's things in my life that I'm probably deceived about.

Every single person sitting in this room is probably deceived in some area of your life. And I think that it's important. We can't We have to pray about it. Like if we have if we're making any decision, like we have to pray about it.

If I'm going to get to this haunted house, if I'm going to let my kids go trick-or-treat in my neighborhood. Because you know what? Some you may have to discern it and somebody there's a pedophile.

Like we're not even talking about whatever, you know, we have to pray about everything and then we have to bring it to the word of God and have accountability in our lives.

Like what's going into the candy that they're giving you, you know? That's a factor, too.

Yeah, you just you never know. So, you know, this is totally different topic, but you know, there's people that vaccinate, don't vaccinate. That's another thing in our culture that a lot of people are divided on.

Respecting Different Convictions and Unity in the Body

But, every decision that's right for somebody, like we were talking about in Romans, that happened in scripture, too. Every decision that's right for somebody isn't going to be right for the person sitting next to him, but we have to learn how to respect each other. Yeah.

And also respect people's different stages of their walk with Christ. Right.

Because when we get saved, he doesn't like force himself on us spiritually and say, "You've got to get every area of your life right right now." Yeah. Like, no, he's a patient God.

And he's one that's in for the long run, and he's playing the long game with us, and he takes us by the hand and walks us step by step. So, maybe like I've decided to stop doing this.

Maybe I was an addict and I was drinking alcohol, and then I stopped that, but I'm still smoking my cigarettes. So, the Lord's going to give me a little grace as I He's put things down. We can't all have just a pure file off. It's called sanctification, which is a process every day. So, you have to be able to respect other people who have different decisions than us, because One thing that we have lost is the passion for unity in the body of Christ. We are so quickly just to cut off relationships because someone's different than us. Yes.

We're so busy to just be done or say, "I'm just leaving this church because I don't like that they don't do this, this, and this." Or, "I don't think I should hang out with this person because they do this." Like, no, like we've got to confront sin.

We've got to embrace people and walk with them and be able to like be vulnerable in our relationships and not always assert that we're right. Right.

We have to value relationship over opinions, over task, over all of those things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that's a broken part of our culture and a broken part in the body of Christ where we can't just all sit in a room and have a different opinion about something. Yeah.

That causes a that grieves the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, I love that. Like, I'm all about that. If someone wants to come up in here and have a different opinion from us, I am totally okay with that. We can sit down and have a conversation because I think that's what it's all about. There's no problem with that.

Staying Open and Laying Things Down Without Judging

There are things that I believed in when I was young that I that I would have died for that I don't even believe in now. And the only reason why I know that is because I remained in a place where I was open to hear truth even if it disagreed with what I was I believed in.

And John Ruskin he says that if you take all of the good things of people and on yourself all of the bad things of you will fall off like dead leaves.

So when you know when you meet people keeping your mindset open enough to hear not just like hear and be like okay cool like you don't agree but I mean like hear like listen and then if they say something that makes you like maybe don't know how to argue at it but you know you want to you don't agree with it then study it and make it what you believe or let the Lord show you that there's a new thing to believe because I thought salvation was one thing when I was young and then as I studied it deeper and I found the scriptures I I like read it I I I studied it deeply did I only then did I realize that it's way more than America has made it to be and it and it costs way more than people have made it cost and America we've created within the churches we've created cool country clubs to belong to instead of and and this isn't anything I I love the American church I've worked for the American church I'm not saying anything but but we have we've deceived many to make them believe that they're good when they're not good and so it's so there so if you can't stay open enough for the Lord to correct your theology or correct your idea about something then like that that you're going to lose out on so you won't be able to grow you won't be able to see what the Lord's doing and and like you know I don't drink I don't drink at all I laid down drinking one because my family has a history of just terrible alcoholism and two because I have a hard enough time hearing the Lord when I'm sober I don't want to put anything in my body that makes me not be able to hear the Lord but I have friends who drink and I love my friends who drink and it doesn't bother me that they open up alcohol in front of me.

It doesn't bother me that they want to, you know, just relax. You know, I I I don't need it to relax, but some people, you know, that they feel like they do. And it's not my place to tell them because, you know, there's not something that specifically says no drinking at all.

You know, Jesus turned water into wine. He didn't turn Lots of people want to be like, "Well, actually it was like grape juice." Basically, nope, it was wine. Wine was wine back then just like it is now. You know, and so So, there I don't think that it's sin.

I don't I You know, like I don't have that judgment. It's just my personal conviction. But, that grew because I stayed open enough to hear the Lord and realize, you know what? I'm going to lay this down for you, Lord, because I don't need it.

But, that doesn't mean I'm going to make somebody else feel small for it. And that lack of unity that, you know, our our our churches yeah, across America, we should be one body. We are the farthest thing away from one body that you can possibly be.

And and so it And that's a lot of that is because we are just so ready to jump on somebody because they took their kids trick-or-treating or or ready to jump on somebody because they don't celebrate holidays and I You don't understand why.

How Other Holidays Got Their Roots

You're like, "Why Why wouldn't you celebrate holidays? That's silly." But, if you want to get into it, all holidays have kind of been formed the same way. Christmas was a pagan holiday that the Roman Catholics took in and said, "Hey, listen, you guys are celebrating the same.

Let's put Jesus's birth on it because we don't actually know when Jesus was born." A lot of people, a lot of theologians, they think that Jesus was born like based on where the star was and all that stuff.

They think he was born more like in like like August, September, October, like more of that that range than December.

You know, Easter Easter the bunny the the Easter bunny that we celebrate, it was it's based off of Ishtar, which was a god with a goddess with a with a with a rabbit's head. And she was the goddess of fertility.

And so, when we when we at the church put out eggs for kids to go pick up and and collect, why? Well, guess what? The eggs are representing that fertility from, you know, So,

It's kind of gross, actually, when you think about it.

So, you have to be So, so like we have to be careful what we're what we're offended by with each other and people like with Halloween because they're so everything has something, you know, like I think that you said that earlier that like it's one of those things where it comes from a very mixed-up background.

Some of it was Christian, some of it was Pagan, and it just kind of all meshed together and really honestly all of those holidays nowadays have very little actual spiritual meaning to people. We obviously it has spiritual meaning but like to a lot of people and it's commercial.

It's all about selling all the stuff, getting all the candy, getting all the decorations. All the money.

All the money at Hobby Lobby or you know, wherever to get your gifts. Yeah, do you know Yeah, it's all about it's we we are so commercialized in America that it's all about the financial side of it that like making people buy stuff, you know.

We're not Hobby Lobby shaming or anything. No, no, I love Hobby Lobby.

They have the cutest things ever. I was just I was just saying, you know, like I'm just kidding. It was the only thing Michael's. Michael's. I will say Michael's. Yeah.

Closing Prayer

Lord, we just thank you so much for your goodness in how you meet us every single day and every single thing that we face. God, we thank you for your spirit who's consistently drawing us closer to you.

God, we thank you so much that you are the one who conforms us to look more like you, Lord, that you sanctify us day in and day out.

And God, I just thank you so much that you give us the Holy Spirit to help us to discern what is of you and what is not, Lord, so we can make the most of the days because we are living in such an evil age.

And God, I pray that you would help the listeners, every single person who has heard this podcast, if there's something that you have brought to their minds, Lord, that they've been convicted about. God, I pray that right now they would just give it over to you, Lord.

They would surrender it to you and place it at your feet. And God, that you would show them how to move forward. Lord, I pray that you would give us a spirit of discernment, Lord, that you would help us to discern between light and darkness and truth and evil.

And God, I pray that you would just help each person know how they should walk, what they should do, what they should say, how they should celebrate. And God, we just thank you, Lord, that your word is sharp as a double-edged sword, Lord.

It's able to discern anything, God, and it can just show us in areas in our lives where we're wrong, God.

If there's anywhere inside of us that has been anything, any area in our life, Lord, that we're not seeing clearly, Lord, I pray that you would help us to see things with your eyes, Lord, not just our eyes, but with your eyes, Lord, that we wouldn't be deceived about the enemy, Lord, but we would walk in clarity and in truth.

And God, we just thank you so much for your grace in Jesus' name. Amen.

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