If I'm Still Tempted...Am I Really Free? The Truth About Freedom in Christ

Welcome back to another episode of The Beauty in Burnt Toast. Today we have with us our friend Melissa Reynolds and we are going to talk about what does freedom actually look like.

I think sometimes Christians have this idea that when Jesus sets us free, whatever we struggled with should just disappear. And when it doesn't, we immediately think something is wrong with us or our relationship with God. Is that actually biblical freedom?

Meet Melissa Reynolds

So, I'm going to let you just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Um, so I am in my 40s and I so I'm originally my dad was in the military, so I've moved 26 times all over the country along with being a ministry for the last 10 years. Um, and then right now I'm currently the global outreach pastor and benevolence pastor for Dayar Church.

And um, before here I was in Atlanta for about nine years working with the Atlanta Dream Center and the Atlanta School of Ministry. and um I'm married and my husband lives in Morocco and he's wonderful and loves Jesus and yes.

How long have you been with Desa?

Uh I started working with Desar four years ago. So um 2021 it was actually my sister had pancreatic cancer. Okay.

And died and then I came on staff about two weeks after she passed. Wow. Um, and it was kind of a miraculous thing that happened because I was not going to go back into ministry.

And then after she passed, I don't know, with grief sometimes it opens your brain really, really well and you can hear the Lord different than before. And so I was like, "Oh, I'm supposed to do this." And so end up on staff.

You have always pretty much been in ministry.

Um, since I was 19. I did ministry school starting at 19 years old. Um, I didn't become a Christian until I was like 17.

Um, not a real Christian.

I went to church a little bit with my friends and then but my my actual like conversion experience well actually was when I was 19 and I was living in Hawaii and um I was listening to MTV with my mom and there was a song that came on by the band 12 Stones and there was just I it was like a 100 years ago and and the one of the there was one line in the song I don't even remember the song but the there was one line that said and in the midst of darkness Lord my spirit calls on you that's all it said and for whatever reason as soon as I heard that moment I started sobbing in my living room my family's not Christian like at And so my mom was like, "What's wrong with you?" I was like, "I have to find Jesus." And she like, "What?" And like just they thought I was crazy, you know, and which, you know, to their defense, it probably crazy.

And I think uh maybe four months later, 5 months later, I was on a plane and I moved back to Florida. Um well, South Georgia to live with my youth pastors until the Lord called me to ministry school. So I've been in ministry since then. So 19 years old. Mhm.

A Complicated Family Faith Story

So, did anything ever happen differently with your parents' walk? Did they become

So, my father was really agnostic um whenever I first started this thing and he uh I he believes in God now. So, he's he doesn't attend church or anything yet. Um you know, the Lord if it's his will, it's going to it's going to come.

Uh my mother uh she had I think that she had I think she believed in in the Lord. Um I don't know that I don't know where she was with the Lord when she passed. I know that um she did have a lot of time with a pastor before she passed. So I believe that she's in heaven.

Um but our family, you know, my parents, it was such a weird thing because my parents wouldn't go to church, but they would send us on a bus that took us to church when I was young. And I liked it. I had fun with it. I didn't learn anything about Jesus.

I was mostly excited just to be with people and they were giving us candy like every Sunday.

Um but my parents would never go. And so then when I got older, I didn't I mean I always thought about the Lord. I never really looked for God. Like some people look for God in drugs and alcohol and you know sex and things like that. I never looked for him that way.

Um or not looked for him filled that God jet hole. Like we don't know what to call it. So we use that cheesy term but that's what it is.

It's that completion that we can't seem to find and so we fill ourselves with things hoping that that will complete things and then at the end of it we're like nope still don't feel good. And so I never did that. It was always spiritual things.

Chasing the Supernatural

So I um I did witchcraft for a while. So I was into wikah and stuff like that.

So my friend and I, we started a coven and we used to do like spells and I had a pentagram hanging in my room like all these things and uh it was a it was a whole thing because I and I and I was experiencing things. I maybe was delusional and convincing myself but it felt real

and cuz I was always like I've always been fascinated by the supernatural. I think it's an incredible thing like like if it exists, if we believe it exists, which we do, then why are we not trying to encounter the supernatural more often?

Like what a cool thing to have access to, but it's scary because we don't understand it. This is making me wish we would have gone down a totally different road. That's Isn't that funny?

Like the disciples back in the day, if they saw somebody who was possessed and it wouldn't come out, they'd go to Jesus and they go, "What's happening? Why won't this demon come out?" We see a demon now and we're like, "Oh my gosh, demons exist.

What's happening?" It's such an we are in the opposite area. We've got to get back to like I have a huge passion for the spiritual side of things. Um um the the like supernatural side of it because it is within our grasp. It says that heaven invaded earth.

that came here which means that it is here now with us. We get to heaven is here on earth. Do we have the all the allness of heaven? No, you can't fit the allness of heaven. I had a pastor who gave me an example one time.

He said um he said, "I I went to the beach and I scooped up a big pale of water, you know, and he said there was some organisms in there, you know, sand and everything." And he goes, he said, "Did I have all of the beach in that water, the allness of the beach?" And we were like, "No." He's like, "But did I have the fullness of the beach?" He said, "It's the water." He said, "It has living organisms in it.

It has the sand." He said, "I have the beach in this pale." He said, "I just can't have the whole beach in the pale because it's too big to consume it or to to hold it." And so he said, "So, um, this is what I this is how I see heaven." He said, "We have the fullness of heaven here on earth.

We have the supernatural things. We have the power that the Lord has given to us." He said, "Do we have the allness of heaven?" No, we couldn't handle the allness of heaven if we try to. He was like, but he's given us enough of it that we can have heaven.

And he was like, so why are we not going after heaven? We were always meant to. And so anyway, I just love the boy. Howdy. I love super spiritual stuff. So anyway, that was that was um a lot of my earlier time with the Lord.

Like he thrusted me into the crazy stuff when I first became a Christian. You know, like how some people they go to Sunday school, they get like the nice exam, you know, like whatever. Nope.

I went straight into ministry school and it was at a church that believed in all kinds of crazy stuff. So I was just like, "Okay." And but it was perfect for me because that's what I that's what I craved. I never craved the the physical thing.

Say crazy stuff. What do you mean? So, for example, uh I prayed for a woman who was blind. She came to the altar, prayed for a woman who was blind. Um and but she was also de demonically um like literally possessed because she I was praying for her.

So when she came up and this is like a like legit this was me who experienced it. Not it wasn't something I heard.

and she walked up um kind of with her her cane came sat down at the altar and then when I looked at her her eyes were kind of like a faded blue color like it was kind of a you know like like she had had a I don't remember she explained to me what it was I don't remember it was a long time ago and so I started praying for her and when I did I felt something it was super weird and I and I had my eyes closed so I looked up and she was staring right at me and her eyes were all black and she started to grin at me and she was like she was like you're never going to make it and I was like oh What?

And I was 19 years old, never I've like never experienced anything. I didn't know a lot about the demonic except for what I understood about it from the witchcraft side of things.

And so then I just kept praying for her and then she like closed her eyes and then when she opened them again, they were back to the blind, the the faded bluish white color that she had.

And so that so that was like my very first supernatural like holy moly, this is crazy stuff. Um, and we had this lady at our church that she was really big into prophecy.

So, she would um the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you know, so like there's two kinds of baptism of the Holy Spirit. There's personal edification tongues.

So, it's what you pray when you're alone or when you're praying or when you're um when you're uh you know, worshiping or whatever.

And then there's there's the edification of the church tongues which is where somebody I don't know if you guys have ever been in the room when somebody does it where somebody screams out really really loud in in you know tongues and then somebody really really loud says that the Lord is saying this through the person interprets right yeah interprets it.

And so um so that was a like a super popular thing at that church like we had a word every single Sunday and um and then there was another lady who loved to wear this like dress thing and then she'd just dance all over the place. So it was like a little bit chaotic.

I mean, now I know those things to be normal. Like, now those things I get I I get why people do it. Um, but back then I I had no idea what was going on. It was the weirdest thing I've ever experienced in my life, but the Lord like showed me a lot through it.

Spiritual Abuse and a Turning Point

And then in that experience, I also was very, um, I was spiritually abused by the pastor that I was working with at the time. And so, um, by the end of that experience, I was walking away from the Lord. I didn't want anything to do with God. Um, because the it was just insane.

Like, he was everybody loved him. Everybody thought he was amazing and he and that's why I went to I went there because he was very charismatic.

Like that guy spoke and I cried my eyes out the first time I heard him which is why I chose that school because there's the school that I went to there were a lot of chapters of it that were all over the country but that specific one he spoke and I was like I don't know what this guy has but I want whatever it is like it was he was very charismatic

and then over time I kind of noticed like a little bit of manipulation and stuff that would happen and you know whatever. It was just one of those things where I'm like well maybe this is just you know like what it's like but I was also a very independent person.

And my parents raised us to be my dad was like, "You are your own person." Like my mom was like, "Nobody touches you unless you want them to." Nobody, you know, like like we were just raised to to be bold and strong and and so all of a sudden I'm this bold, strong personality, but this guy is wearing me down bit by bit.

It's just little comments, you know, and um finally at one point something happened. So I went to our main pastor and I just said, "Hey, listen.

I think I'm going to step down." And he was like, "Why?" And I was like, "You know, I just don't think I'm made for this ministry thing." I was like, "It's just been it's been tough and I think that I've just I think I'm going to go back to college, just get a regular degree.

Like, I just don't think I can do this anymore." And he goes, "Well, can you tell me about it?" And I was like, "No." I was like, "I just want to go." And he goes, "Well, I'm your boss." And I said, "No, you're not my boss.

Tony's my boss." And he goes, "Well, it's my name that signs the checks." And I was like, "Okay." So, I I finally broke down and cried and told him everything.

And um and it was only after I had talked to him and said everything that he I looked up and he was crying cuz I looked at the floor the whole time because the the ministry school that I went through um they had this really big belief that like your director is next to God.

So what he said was you know and so going against him was the highest of sins like you could not like if you did that you are basically going against Jesus. That's what it was that's how it was always portrayed.

So when I did finally go to my pastor, it was so disgusting and so horrible and I felt so horrible. And um but then I looked up and I saw him crying and he got up from where he was sitting and he walked over to me and he wrapped his arms around me and he said, "I'm so sorry.

I had no idea any of this was happening." And for the first time ever, I realized that I was being abused. I wasn't crazy. I wasn't the one that was messing everything up. It was literally that this man was beating me, you know, mentally.

And um after that uh more and more people started to come forward because he had gone through like eight staff members in four years you know like so he had gone through a lot of people and nobody was paying attention and so after that happened a lot of people came forward and they're like oh I you know he did this and he did that and so he ended up getting fired and um and so after that I said you know they're like please stay we love you you're doing a great job and I was like I'll stay for the end of the year but I think at the end of the year I'm probably just going to you know make my next move to my next thing.

So, I remember leaving, I was in Jacksonville, Florida, and I remember driving away from that church saying, "I will never go to church again. I will never ever ever do this again." I was like, "This was stupid." And I was like, "I don't even care if God is real.

I will never do this again." And for the very first time, I heard almost audibly the Lord say, "I am God. I am not man." And it was exactly what I needed to hear because I knew as soon as he said it, I knew that he was letting me know that he is nothing like what I think he is.

And and that one thing that he said has kept me for the last 20 years of ministry because it it isn't based on a person. It isn't based on, you know, me. Make sure that you're holding your, you know, your word. Make sure that you're you're you're really keeping to what you say.

It was just a simple thing of I am God. I am not man. Him essentially saying, I will prove to you that my goodness goes far past the mistakes and very very very messy parts of men.

And um and men being humans, not just men, but um you have to say that nowadays, which is just to clarify, you know. Um and so anyway, after that uh I just stayed with the Lord and I've just been with him since then and I've had some crazy situations happen.

People who have been painful and hurtful and you know, and I've made mistakes and through it all, the Lord has remained next to me and never made me feel small or bad or or evil or anything. He's just been patient and waiting and reminding me that I'm God, not man.

God Is Good, Even When People Aren't

So when somebody is hurtful, I'm able to separate and say this isn't the same thing as Jesus. Jesus is

he's good. He's so so good. Even even in the things that I don't understand or I don't necessarily agree with, God is still good. But humans are we are only only good if we're with our father.

Yeah.

Like even Jesus said it like, you know, you can't call me good. It's my father who's good. You know, even Jesus said, I don't do anything apart from the father. So if Jesus himself, who is, you know, God incarnate, is looking at us and going, bruh, I'm not good. It's God.

I have to go, okay, humans aren't good. Not in a bad way. I mean, there there's goodness in everybody, but I mean like in that that biblical good, like the good, like good of good, you know, and God is the only one who is good.

And so, as we stay with our father, you know, I've just kind of learned that um

like he is good and the messy human things, my messy human things, other humans messy things are

covered by his goodness. Praise the Lord.

Thanks. Yeah,

there's a lot of messy human things.

Lots of messy human things. Good Lord.

Yeah.

What Started This Conversation

Well, let's get into your topic. So, how do you want to start this? So, you know, I had a hyctomy

and so when you have a hyctomy, there's a lot of not moving. You have to I mean, you have to get up and walk to make sure you don't get like, you know, blood clots and stuff like that.

Um, but it had me sitting and not being able to do for a very long time. And I am not a I mean, I could be a doom scroller, I guess, if I really tried, you know, just sit there for hours on something. But I really really try to avoid that as much as possible.

Not just because of the brain rot, but just because you don't realize how micro influenced you can become with things like so, so I I'm careful about the scrolling stuff, you know.

So laying in bed and I'm just like, man, Lord, I guess I'll just lay here and be with you and sleep. So, you know, I got to kind of rest with the Lord. And the Lord was really speaking to me a lot about um freedom and sin.

And it was it it just was one of it's one of those things that we are, you know, 2,000 plus years into this Jesus stuff, you know, like since Jesus came and died and now we're all, you know, saved or

not saved. We're not also, you know what I'm saying? Anyway, um, you know, we're 2,000 years into this and we're still struggling with freedom.

When he says that he came to set the captives free, he said that in John, he said, "We came to set the captives free." you know, he um talks about uh whom the son sets free is free indeed, you know. So, so we have this freedom stuff

and um and it it feels like it's like a concept that's impossible to catch.

Um one of the things that uh I do I I love the freedom the freedom small groups that we do, you know, that's it's one of my favorite things and I love watching people get free from stuff. It's just the best thing. I had the best freedom group this past semester.

I mean, I've had amazing ones, but this past one just saw some people just overcome things. I was like, man, Jesus, you are doing some stuff. Cuz I was like, I can't even take credit for any of that. That was a miracle, you know, like.

So, so it's just it's it's an amazing experience.

But one of the things that I've kind of noticed is that when I meet back up with my team or the group that I was with, you know, like a couple months later and just start talking to them or figure out what how they've been, almost always one or two and sometimes all of them will kind of be like, you know, I was free from that, but I've just kind of I just feel like I can't get free.

I feel like I feel like I I thought it was gone when I went to the altar at the conference and now I feel like it's just like in my face all the time and you know and um and they get super discouraged and so um Gracie Manley she's uh she's at the Madison campus the she's just the sweetest person and when I first met her she knew nothing about Jesus.

Freedom That Doesn't Stick

I mean she did she had she had always gone to church but she did not have a concept of the scripture like she and she would say it she'd be like I want to be closer to God. I want to understand this stuff more, but I cannot seem to get my brain around it.

And and and she and I met, we talked a lot. We we would meet weekly and just talk about deep things of the Lord. And you know, kind of explaining to her like you can't get God. God has to reveal himself to you.

This is like people think that God is the same thing as studying something in school. You know, it's not the same like there's a revelatory piece to it that people are missing.

I had a friend who she was a um she was a overachiever, you know, like so she got all A's in high school, was the validatory, then she went into the military and she was like top of her class, then she went into this and she was top of that and worked her way up.

And she would get so frustrated at church because she didn't understand why people weren't coming to her, why she wasn't the person. And you know, like I had to explain to her that it's not like other things. You cannot achieve Jesus. Only Jesus can come to us.

Only Jesus can reveal us.

Now, we can we can do what Paul says where like we where we work out like athletes where we're purposeful about maintaining what we have with the Lord, but like we can't we can't get it, you know, like he has to give it, you know, he's got to remove the veil.

Um and so anyway, um so that has kind of been happening with with um Gracie and she's the person that I usually teach freedom with because she's just she's so gentle but also like so forward. Like she's a country girl, but she's also very like

So she's like the person who can say things and get away with it.

Yeah. She and she doesn't think she can cuz I I do that all the time, but that's mostly because I'm 40 and I don't really care what people think anymore.

But she's like, "I wish I could say stuff like you." And I'm like, "You do say stuff like me." And I'm like, "And then people want to hang out with you." And she's like,

you just say like, "Bless your heart instead."

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so, um, so anyway, so she and I, we both have had that experience where we're talking to these people who we love and they're telling us, "Yeah, I'm going back to it." And so we've started writing curriculum for like basically freedom part two.

So it kind of carries on some of the because we talk about the Holy Spirit at the conference,

but we don't study the Holy Spirit almost at all during freedom the actual um time like he it's mentioned a little bit but there if we're going to offer you know baptism of the Holy Spirit to people we should probably like sit and talk about it more.

So I love that you're saying that because a big conversation that I've had lately and you know a lot of the conversation we've had and with some of the events we're putting on is about going deeper.

And so my question has been all of these people who experience going through freedom and they get to the end of it. What happens to them after that? Because like you're saying, they have these experiences and then who do they go to to get the answers and answer question?

There's nothing to follow it up. Then they're we're we're sending babies who just learned to walk out into the wild. Now figure and that you know. So that's that's mine and Graciey's heart.

my Gracie and my that's our heart on it is that we want to create a second part that will help continue that walk. I think the first one is great.

The first freedom experience is amazing, but there is a second part of it that I mean there are people who are drug addicts going through it getting clean and then

walking through all again because they have no idea how how to stay there. And so so that's kind of our that's kind of our focus on it. I'm actually after I'm done with this podcast, I'm heading to her house to talk about it.

And um but so I so while I was laying there I was just praying a lot and I was like you know what Jesus I was like Gracie and I are doing this thing and I was like Lord I really want people to understand freedom because that's one of the things that I have noticed not just freedom the actual small group but just freedom in general like there's the concept of being free in Christ and um and I one one of the things that I've just always noticed is one and even in myself not as much anymore but a lot like in the past is that even though I know that God has set me free I don't feel like I'm actually free.

It's like a It's like the opposite. I feel like I'm almost in more prison because now I'm aware that it's not okay. So now I feel even grosser because you know like when you're the when you're not a Christian, you don't like those concepts aren't yours.

So you're not feeling bad about doing the things you're doing because you're like whatever. It's my life. I'll do what I want.

When you love Jesus and those things are happening, there is there should definitely be conviction but not condemnation because it says there is no condemnation in Christ. So if if they're saying if the Lord is saying that, then we have to believe that that's true.

So then why are so many Christians living a life that feels condemned and guilty and shameful all the time? I meet way more people who hate themselves as Christians than I do as people who are not Christians.

I meet way more people who are miserable in their life as a Christian than I do people who don't who aren't Christians. And so and I so I'm like so I was like praying and I was like cuz you know you go to church and it looks lovely and we all know that, right?

Like you go to church and everybody's smiling. Everyone's got their nice clothes on. their kids are being ridiculous because you're smiling at it when really at home you probably would have just like

screamed in the face. Yeah. Like like you know they're they're putting on their best they're putting their best foot forward. So it makes people feel like oh I'm awful because look at how beautiful everything is cuz Instagram is not the first place that gave you fake life.

Okay that that exists everywhere. But the church is one of those places and I'm not saying that to be ugly. I love the I love not just days. I love the church because the church is me. I am the church. We are the church. So I love the church.

But that does not mean that there aren't things that we as the church need to like get a hold of. And one of those things is understanding that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people who are just living unfree.

And that's wild that we have the King of Kings on our side and we're living unfree. And so I was praying about it and um and it was crazy because that evening my friend, she and I were talking about her life and um she deals with samesex attraction.

So that's something that she kind of um deals with. And she's Now let me explain to you this woman is one of the greatest women of God I've ever met in my life. She has given up her life for Jesus in ways that people cannot even understand. She wants to be a wife.

She wants to be a mother. She wants all of those things. But this little attraction that she has, this it kind of sits over here on the side. And but for her, it feels monumental.

And she feels like she just doesn't please the Lord because or she did feel that way that and she and it was so much so that she wouldn't even say out loud that she that that the Lord has that she's been, you know, walking through it because she's so humiliated that it's still something that she thinks about.

And so, um, she was like, so she made a comment. She was just like, you know, I just wish that I was free from it. I wish that I could be free. And I was like, and it just hit me right then. I said, but you are free. And she was like, but I still think about it. I was like, okay.

Free, But Still Tempted

And I was like, but you're free. The Lord set you free. You are his. I was like, if you're his and his word is good, then you're free. I was like, otherwise he's a liar and we're following a horrible God. And I said, sorry, I don't believe that.

So if he said that he came to set the captives free and you've laid your life down to him, I said, I believe that you're free. And she was like, "I just feel like I'm always tempted by it." I was like, "Okay." I was like, "Jesus was tempted.

What means you don't get to be tempted anymore?" And she's like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Okay, let's look at it like this." And I said, "So, she had recently broken up with this guy.

We'll just call him Bob just for the sake of, you know, because I don't need to throw his information out there." Anyway, so she had just she had recently broken up with this guy named Bob.

And um Bob really cared about her, but she just realized that it just spiritually speaking was just not the right thing. it was, you know, she she liked him, but there there just wasn't it was just wasn't compatible.

And so she broke up with him and I said, "So when he calls you and texts you," I was like, "Does that mean that you're in a romantic relationship with him?" And she was like, "No." And I was like, "If he were to call you and you answered the phone and you talked to him for a few minutes." I was like, "Does that mean that you guys are back in a relationship?" And she was like, "No." And I was like, "If he if you got married in 5 years and he came to your house and knocked on the door and you opened the door and talked to him for a moment," I was like, "Does that make you in a relationship with him?" And she was like, "No." And I was like, "Right." And she was like, "Oh my gosh." And like I I could see it like she was like, "Um uh this is like a this is like a life-changing moment." She's like, "I feel it right now.

I can feel this being a life-changing moment." She was like, "I've never thought about it like that before." I was like I was like, "Listen, the you're going to have this this is going to be your fa we're in a fallen world.

It's going to be in your face forever." And because the enemy knows that it's something you're tempted by, it's going to be in your face even more.

All of a sudden, your favorite TV show that you love, that you've been watching for years, all of a sudden this, you know, female and female relationship shows up and you're like, great, now I'm thinking about it. I was like, it's always going to be there.

I was like, but you're free. I was like, just because it's knocking, just because it's texting, just because it's, you know, doing all the things it's doing does not mean that you have to answer it anymore because you're free of it.

And for whatever reason, that was just the thing that when when I said it, she it just clicked.

And it was funny because she was just like, "Why have you never said this before?" I was like, "Oh, bro, that just came right now." I was like, I I was like, "I've never even thought about I was like, I'm I'm excited about this, too. I'm like, I'm about to go.

And then I think I texted you. I don't think it was that night, but like the next day, I was just like, listen, we don't have to. I was like, but uh the Lord just laid something down that is changing myself and her.

And so, so we kind of kept talking a little bit and she said, you know, I feel like if I just understood the love of God better, you know, like how he loves me. And I was like, no. And she was like, what? And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, no.

I was like, but you know the love of God. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, he doesn't have to you don't have to know his love anymore. He has proven himself so hardcore to us that there is not a reason for us to question his love.

Like not just with Jesus, just the way he created the world where we have the exact amount of gravity so that we're staying on this earth, but we're not being crushed by it. How is that not a love story? So anyway, so I told her, I was like, he has proven his love to us.

And I said, I think that the issue and the conversation doesn't need to be, I wish I could just figure out the love of God. I think the conversation needs to be, do I love God?

And I and I know that that sounds like a weird question because if you go to church, like of course you love God. That's not true. Like they're like people treat the Lord like a sugar daddy.

They they what they want is they want him to do all the things they need and then um but just keep loving them. And then the amount of effort we put back in return is like whatever, you know, like oh well he's God. Like he gets my heart. He knows me, you know?

I mean I Yeah, I haven't like spent time with him in like a couple weeks, but I mean like he knows how busy I am. Like he's God. He knows. Well, I So the way that I look at it is like a marriage, you know? Like if I did that with my husband, what would my marriage be like?

You know, like the reality is is that when we say yes to the Lord, this is this is a marriage. Like when we say yes to to God, we are meant to be the bride of Christ. It's very very clear in the Bible.

Um and so that yes, it matters, but we treat it like it's just like this thing we have to do so that our big scary God isn't in like mad with us anymore. And but we're just going to keep living our lives and we'll just say sorry like every time we feel bad. Again, not freedom.

Loving God More Than the Sin

Because if we really did understand what it is to be in love with God, then the freedom that we would experience would be wild. Um, one of my favorite uh areas of the Bible to study is Matthew 5, which is the biatitudes.

And a lot of people, you know, the biatitudes is like they kind of look at it like that thing that's in a poster that's at your grandma's church. You know what I'm talking about?

Like, oh, the biatitudes, blessed are those who, you know, it is a listen, that is the first thing Jesus had 2,000 plus years to think of or no, excuse me.

Jesus had eternity before he came here to think about what he would say to people and the first thing that he decided to tell us was the keys to happiness and because blessed means in in the Greek it's macarios that means happiest happiest are those so when it says happiest are those who are poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God happiest are those who mourn for they shall be comforted happiest are those who are hungry and thirsty for righteousness sake for they shall be filled you know it was funny for him to say that back in the day because that was counterculture like the Jews are hearing it they're going what do you mean poor because the Jews did not seem see poor as a blessing the Jews saw poor is poor, you know, um what do you mean hungry and thirsty?

How was that blessed? What do you mean, you know, like what do you mean um mourning? How is mourning blessing? You know, like like it would be the opposite. They they would hear that and a lot of them would be annoyed and walked away because they're like that's that's dumb.

But the ones who heard really heard, blessed are the poor in spirit. It's not that you know you're poor. It's that you look at yourself and say I am nothing. I have nothing. All I can have is him. So what do you get? What happens when you're empty? You get filled.

It's either filled with the things of the world or filled with the things of the Lord. And he said, "Blessed are the poor in spirit for they for theirs is the kingdom." Which means that the kingdom of God is what fills you. God's love is not the one that's in question. It's ours.

Yeah.

And so, you know, do I love God more than I love my sin. That's the question. Like that freedom that we're looking for comes down to is God is God better. That's her. Yep. Is God better and more good than the porn that I want to watch right now?

Is God better and more good than the drugs that I'm hungry for? Is God better and more good than the ugly things I want to say to my husband or my kids? You know, like like at some point we have to look at it and say, "Lord, your love is obvious. Your love is proved.

My love, do I even want to love you?" Because the reality is is that there are things about God that if people really looked into it, they would potentially choose to walk away because he's good. Like don't get don't get it wrong, he's good.

But there are things about him that are hard. There are things about him that are sure, that are complete. And truth is not something people are interested nowadays.

Nowadays, everything needs to be we we need to be able we we got to, you know, we got to be able to to navigate this so that everybody's happy. Nope. He could care less about our happiness. He does, however, want our holiness.

And he does, however, want us to be with him for eternity. And but there is a cost to that. Salvation's free. Anybody can have salvation, but that does not mean there's not a cost to maintain it.

That doesn't mean that there's not like that you don't have to do certain things in order to walk into the kingdom of God. Um he says it a couple different times, but he says that the gate is n or the the road is wide, but the gate is narrow.

It says many will try to enter, but very few will. And so that but what we don't realize is it's not just that we said a prayer so we get to go to heaven. It's a relationship, you know, and now he's God, so he does everything his own way.

So, like the thief on the cross, he didn't probably didn't have a real deep relationship with Jesus, you know, he probably got got told he was going into paradise and then he, you know, he died.

Um, so God, he works he's going to he's going to allow into heaven who he wants to allow in heaven or who, you know, whatever. Um, but it is it is a deeper thing than just you said a prayer when you were in sixth grade and now you get to go to heaven.

There's not there's there's not scripture that supports that. like not not unless you're picking and choosing the right things to put together that you got to be careful with that.

You can't you have to take scripture contextually and um you have to use Jesus to interpret Paul and Peter and and the disciples, not them to interpret Jesus because that's what we do. But the but the Lord, he's super clear about it.

And almost all of it is that you have to leave everything that you love for sake and you have to follow him. And so like so what we've done is we've created this fun little package that works for everybody. Everybody feels really good about it.

It feels like you know if you sin or if you do these different things it's fine which you know God forgives our sin and stuff like that but we live like um we live as if we are immune to anything and we can just live our life however and we're still

well it's like just because he died for your sins doesn't mean that that means you need to go off and and go crazy.

Absolutely correct. But you know what's interesting to me as far as freedom goes, one thing that I've noticed a big change in lately is that the closer I come to him, the more things you have to let go of, right?

But the more my brain is filled with him and those things don't matter as much.

Yeah. cuz I was thinking about the other day I was just like

sure do think about it's just a lot more consistent in my brain than it's that it's ever been throughout the day. So,

and that's and I mean that's the hope. That's what we want. We want it to be that um I had a pastor once um teach at the I went to two ministry schools. So, the second ministry school I went to and he said um he said one day we're going to meet Jesus.

Like one day we're going to get to heaven. you know, all the things are going to happen and he's going to, you know, bring us in and we're going to get the hug and he's going to wipe the tears from our eyes and we're just going to have the celebration or whatever.

And he said, "What about day two?"

He was like, "Are you standing there with the one that your heart has longed for for the entire time you were on the earth or are you standing there with a stranger that thank goodness you made it in and now you've got to learn him there?" And he was like, "Which one?" Like he's like, "What do you want?" And I'm like, "Oh no, I want to know him so good.

I want to be there and be like, I was meant to be here. This is great." you know, and so that that was one of those things that when he said that that cl that clicked in my head and um and so like salvation is you're right. It's it's constantly laying things down.

Even Paul said it. He said, "I lay down my cross, I pick up his that he daily like on a daily basis is doing that. He says that he that he um crucifies himself, crucifies his flesh with Christ like like we have to do these things, you know.

He's he was the you apostle of apostles, you know, that every like just amazing. And even he was constantly like, "Guys, I've got this thing on my side that is never going to go away, but I'm always going to praise the Lord." You know, he was miser.

I bet I my assumption before the Lord, you know, healed those things.

My assumption is that he felt so miserable about the things that he had done to Christians that he probably with that blindness that he went through before Ananas came and prayed for him and the and the the blindness fell off.

I imagine there was suffering in the midst of that blindness that he was dealing with that just anxiety and just miserable existence that he was the one who caused that pain and then and then those you know the the the blindness fell off of him like scales from the eyes and he was free and then all of a sudden he became you know this guy that's like hey guys here's how we do this we got to do this together and it's going to be good you know and and so I think that um understanding that freedom is um is very real and very possible we would change the nation like if people really lived as free as they pretend like they are, um the amazing things that we would see God do if we could just get out of our heads.

Hearing His Voice

And I think, you know, that's that's the biggest thing is that freedom is again um and I know we said this a little bit before we started talking, but um it says in Ephesians 6 that you put on the sal the helmet of salvation.

It's a reason why the helmet is or salvation is a helmet because your salvation is not a feeling. It's not here. It's here. It's that constant game of oh, I shouldn't do that. I shouldn't do this.

that you know like that's just that's why we put on that helmet of salvation and the more that you release the more that you get rid of the more you allow yourself to just not do anymore it does it gets refilled with Jesus and um I I remember watching this this story from uh I think it was like a 60 minutes and this uh monk was on there he's a Christian monk so he loved the Lord and he was talking to them and they were like he was like yeah I'm just I'm always talking to the Lord and they're like what do you mean you're always talking to the Lord he's like I'm always talking to him and they're like even right now and he goes goes, "Yeah, even right now I'm talking to him." And he said, "He's in my thoughts.

He's in my ideas. He's in, you know, my conversations with people." He's like, "I'm always talking to him." And I remember watching that and crying and being like, "Lord, that's what I want. I want my thoughts. I want my ideas. I want everything.

My inner my inner monologue." I don't know if you guys I I found out recently that there are other people who don't have inner monologues. I don't even I didn't even know what that feels like. I know. I was like, "That sounds blissful and also crazy." I don't know.

But anyway, but um I remember uh I just thinking like, man, Lord, I want the voice that I hear to be yours. And I was driving this that was like like 10 years ago. It was a long time ago.

And I was driving down the road um on my way to Coleman to the Coleman campus probably like three months ago, four months ago. And I remember thinking about that and I was just like, man, Jesus, I really do wish that that was that.

And I and I heard the Holy Spirit very clearly say, I am your inner voice. I am the one that you're listening to.

He's like, "I have you have given me enough of you that you've allowed me to be the one that hear that that you hear." And I just started crying because I knew he was right. And not in a prideful way, just in like a like an unbelievable grateful way.

That doesn't mean that I don't have

dumb thoughts. Like I still have

It's really a lot to take in though. I mean, it's it's a lot to to think about

Learning What Safety Feels Like

because we I've gone from feeling guilty and condemned and gross and unwanted to understanding that his eyes are on me and not like watching me like Santa. I mean like on me like I'm one of his favorite things to watch.

I'm one of his favorite things to be around and that feels prideful but also very humbling because who am I that the king of the universe would even notice me let alone have his eyes fixed on me but he is and it's on you and it's on you as well and but um us having that understanding also unlocks even more freedom because uh I you know recently got married about two years ago and my husband is just one of the greatest humans on the planet.

We could do a whole podcast about how much I want. But anyway, um and one of the things about him is like the way that he looks at me.

He looks at me like I am the biggest treasure he's ever had in his life, which is just I still think about it sometimes and I'm like don't know what's going on. But anyway, um and he is he's kind and he's gentle with me.

And the way that he talks to other people is so different than how he talks to me, how he responds to me.

And um I remember the first time that we got to meet in person and I was sitting with him and I had never felt more safe ever in my entire life which was huge because not because I it's not that I wasn't safe when I was growing up. My parents were good parents.

But um after that after I left my house I was I was the fat kid and I was really really big. I wasn't like a little bit big.

I was really big and so though people were definitely kind to me and I have some really great friends like physical closeness was never really something not really just them either. Like I didn't want people to touch me.

you know, like I just felt gross and I, you know, and with him I've felt more safe than I've ever felt ever. And um and that's that has given me the best um it's called uh Tupose, which is parallel is is kind of in in in the Bible it's called Tupose.

So like Moses and Jesus, there's a two post between the two of them, you know.

Um, but it was the it was one of the best two posts that I could have live I could have learned um about the love of God and how he sees us and what it is like that when you are in love with him too, how freedom becomes even more easy.

I am so much more free with my husband than I am anybody else. You would think I was a dork if you were sitting around me with my husband. He doesn't. He thinks it's cute, which good for him. But like like other people would just be like, "Oh, okay.

That was weird." You know, but but with him, I feel free. I feel like I can. When you love the Lord, like when you know his heart is for you and your heart is equally for him, the freedom that you can experience becomes completely different.

And so when you do sin, you ask for forgiveness not out of condemnation and shame, but you just say, "Man, Lord, I I hate that I did that because I know that your heart for me is so good and I wish that I could be as good as you." And then but you release it.

You just say, "But Lord, I'm I'm sorry, but I know that I I know that you love me and I know that you've forgiven me." And you walk in that understanding.

the again this this freedom stuff is it's all a mental game and that helmet of salvation it's understanding what salvation really means understanding what that relationship really means um uh in Matthew 7 21-23 it's you know um the scripture that says that um people were coming before the Lord and he either said well done my good and faithful servant come on in or he said depart from me I never knew you'd second part of it is that he said depart from me I never knew you'd people are going but I cast out demons in your name I healed the sick I prophesied in your name and he said I'm sorry but I never knew you.

And that word knew is the same way that Adam knew Eve. That's the same it's the same um word in the Greek and um I think Hebrew, but anyway. And so it's an intimacy. It's it's understanding that you're supposed to be intimate with the Lord. Now, don't

we don't have to be weird about it. Not intimate, but you know what I mean? Like like a depth of of friendship. Like I'm I'm new friends with Jade. We're we're becoming good, you know, like better friends, but we're new friends. So, we're still learning about each other.

But my friend Andrea from the Madison campus, she knows almost everything about me and I know so so much about her and we are very aware of each other and we can tell if we're in a room somewhere, we can tell with one look at each other, you know, that something is not okay and we need to text about this later, you know, like whatever.

And so um so it's a different thing with Jade. She's, you know, we're new friends, so there are some things I probably wouldn't do in front of her because she'd be like, "Wow, that was a lot." And I'd be like, "Okay, well, I'm going to go I'll never see you again.

Bye." And so, you know, so it's it it's there's that, you know, like so when he's talking about that intimacy, that that new me, that's we're talking like that safety where I can come to him and I can if I want to risk it and be like Job and be like, "Where were you?" And he wants to, you know, four chapters throw me on the ground and tell me that he's God.

Okay? You know, but also when my sister died and I was driving and I was screaming at him because I had given my entire life to him 20 years, never had children, never did any of it, all for his sake, and he couldn't even heal my sister. M

and he let me say that anyway and he heard me and it wasn't it wasn't he didn't punish me to make me feel small. I felt comfort, you know, because because there was an intimacy there and understanding that I was allowed to ask the questions that are hard.

I was allowed to say, "God, how come this is something I'm still dealing with? How come you took my sister? How come I didn't get married until I was 40?

How come I never got to have children?" I'm allowed to ask those questions and then he there is a freedom when I do and he responds. There's it's it's like this beautiful thing.

But if we avoid it, if we pretend like it doesn't exist, if we hide it from everybody around us, silence is a tool of the enemy. Like he he takes that silence, he shuts you up as hard as he can, and then he makes you suffer alone. And it's never meant to be that way.

Confessing an Addiction Out Loud

We're not meant to suffer like that. And so so freedom is meant for us to have. It was always meant for us to have. He's the one that offered it. He's the one that wants us to have it. And we're just like, I don't know. It's like this free.

It's like this thing that's sitting right there and we avoid it because we're

what it might be asking for a lot. Like you said, laying things down. It's hard to lay things down.

You know, I had an addiction to pornography for a really long time and which is crazy cuz I'm a girl, you know, and we don't talk about that for women sometimes, but I did for a very long time. And and part of that time that I did, I was in ministry and it was horrible.

And it wasn't until I was finally able to like actually lay it down and it took lots of accountability, lots of saying out loud, hey, just, you know, I deal with this.

Then I have, you know, having to deal with the consequences of that because there was a time where I had to be pulled off stage because I was on stage when this was happening. And it was a really good thing for my pastor to do because I was healed from so much.

And then I have lots of accountability now who are people are like, "Hey, just so you know, I was laying in my bed. Really wanted to watch the stuff. Didn't even look at it. I'm not like I'm kind of past that part. Like I'm not going Well, I can't careful hottiness before a fall.

Never say never." But you know, I believe the Lord has kept me from that and will continue. But like it doesn't mean it's not still a temptation. That comes back to what what I was telling my friend that like I am healed from that.

I am not I that is not something that has me anymore.

doesn't mean that it doesn't show up and pop up on an ad when I'm looking on, you know, the internet or when it's in a TV show or a movie because my goodness, the things they allow in certain ratings nowadays, I'm like, "Holy moly." Okay.

And so, like, you don't even know it's coming. It's just, you know, right there and you're like, and so you like, so it so it doesn't mean it's not going to show up. It just means that it's not mine anymore. It just it just means that I'm not going to.

And and uh somebody explained this before about sin.

Um they said, "You're not going to be tempted by things that you're not meant to be tempted by." So, like somebody could walk in here and take that table right there and they could put a pile of cocaine on there and I would have zero interest in it. I would look at it and be like

I I probably should turn this into the police, right? Like I would not I not like maybe I could just try it and we'll see, you know, like I would just not be interested.

Now they could walk in and put horrendous food and pornography on the table and I'd be like I'm gonna need to leave the room because I am this is I got to go, you know, like like absolutely you know that. So everybody's tempted by different things.

You have to know what your temptations are and you have to be okay to run away from them. I mean, I have moments with the temptations of things, but temptation doesn't mean that you're not free. Just means it's there. We live in a fallen world. It's just going to be there.

It's always going to be there.

Do you think that the reason that people make their temptations their identity is just a lack of understanding?

Honestly, yes, I do. I think part of it is a lack of understanding and part of it is a lack of depth with the Lord. I think that if you actually understood the goodness of Jesus that you would it it just would be easier for you to walk away from it.

Um that's what at least for me that's what changed it when I really began to understand the goodness of God. Like I understood what real actual surrender means. Not the not the buzz word that we use in in altar calls, but I mean like real surrender.

I when I finally realized it, it was it became so much easier because I'm not surrendering to some mean God who's giving me a bunch of rules. I'm surrendering to a lover who has laid his life down for me. So, I'm looking at it.

I'm going, "Well, you did that for me." Like, what does it cost me to never look at that again? Good lord. If anything, it cost me nothing and it gives me lots of brain cells back and like whatever, you know?

Um, so I think that yeah, I think a lot of it is is a lack of like explanation. I feel like we don't say the real things enough because real things are scary. Um, especially like from the pulpit. Pastor Jerry, we're lucky.

He says he says some things from the pulpit that I'm like, one of these days someone's going to catch that. that's going to go viral. Maybe for the good reason, maybe for you know,

it's happened before, hasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. A couple times. But um you know, so luckily we do have a pastor who says things really real, but there are a lot of people even with small groups and stuff like that where we won't say what really needs to be said. And that and that's tough.

We want we want Jesus to be our friend, not our Lord. And those are two different things that he he has to be our Lord. Like he has to be that's the part like friend is good, but like the part that that enters into heaven is that he's our Lord.

And um when I was in ministry school, one of the things that they taught us about about sin is is that there's really there's the root of all sin, which which is the you know, they say the Bible says it's love of mine, but there's there's like a there's a there's sins and there's the sin.

And the sin goes all the way back to Genesis when Adam and Eve were standing in the garden and he said um they said, "We can't eat it because we'll die." And he said, "You're surely you won't die." He said, "Um all that will happen is you will become like a god." The temptation was to become like God.

So even in Christianity now, people live their lives as if they are God. It's kind of like a stool. If you have a stool sitting here, right? And you have you have um you're sitting on the stool and Jesus is right here.

And so when we when salvation comes, we're saying we want you to be the king of my heart. This is yours now. So we get up from that and he sits down on that throne. So that throne is his now.

Well, but until there's this new job venture coming up and it looks really good and I'll be making more money and it will be way better and it'll feel more comfortable and I kind of feel like the Lord is maybe saying no, but also that could just be me cuz I'm scared.

So then I start to scooch him off the off the the the chair a little bit. I kind of like So now we're kind of half cheeking it. He's got half. I've got half. And then at some point I have to make a decision and then I just go, "Nope, I'm going to do it." Boom.

And he's off the he's off the throne. I have not surrendered. What I've done is I've taken it back from him. True surrender is when he's on the throne and when he speaks as a king, we say yes, Lord. Um that's hard for Americans because we don't have a king.

You know, we have a president. The president is for the people by the people. It's an office somebody holds. You are not a bloodborn president. A king is different. My husband lives in a country where they have a king.

And um the Moroccan king, what he wants, what he says, these are the things that this because he's the king. And it's not because he was voted in because people really liked him. It's because of the blood that runs through his veins. Jesus is Christ. He's the king.

Off the Throne

Not because we're making, you know, like we're giving some figment of our It's because he is the king and that's the blood that runs through his veins. And so when he sits on the throne, he's the king. He makes the decisions.

And so surrender and freedom come from remaining bowed at that place, not trying to stand up and take it back. Because when I try to take control of, you know, my addiction to food or my addiction to pornography or, you know, gossip or anything, I make a mess of it.

And by the end of it, I've done more than I meant to do in 20 years, you know. But if I release it and I just sit before him, just like you said, and you surrender more and more, you get filled more and more with him. And then all of a sudden one day you wake up and you're like,

"Bro, I haven't had a thought about it in like three months."

Of course, then that afternoon I'm like, "Dang it,

thought about it again." But still, like it's it's it's when your eyes are on him, it's just real hard for your eyes to be on other things. You know what I mean? Like uh blessed uh Matthew 5'8, blessed are the pure in spirit, the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

And a lot of people read that and they think you need to be pure in order to see God. But that's not what it's saying. It's saying that the pure in heart see God in every single thing that's happening, every single thing that you're doing.

So when you have freedom, you are it's it's it's like your eyes are open and you're seeing the world for the first time like in a different light.

And so then all of a sudden when that person cuts you off and you want to curse in your car, which is anyway, so when that happens, you're able to catch your tongue and be like, you know what, Lord, bless that person. Maybe they're just having a tough day. I need to, you know.

So anyway,

if someone listening has surrendered something to Jesus, but it keeps knocking at the door, what would you tell them to do?

I would say get a friend that would help the door for him for them over and over. It I I know that it's like a it's one of those, you know, churchy things, but there's a reason why he says that we need to do it.

There's a reason why he says where two or more are gathered, the spirit of God is among them. That iron sharpens iron that never forsake the assembling of yourselves. We we isolate ourselves because again that's the shame. That's the that's the um that's the guilt.

That's the condemnation is that we say, "Oof, I'm on an island and it's bad. I need to get away from it." And that is just not that's the wrong that's wrong. He Why why was the Acts two church?

If the if if we're just supposed to be a lonely island, then what's the point of the Acts two church? Why did Jesus collect disciples?

Like he had the 12, but then there was like the 120 that were also around them all the time and then the big massive crowds were always around him. So, if even Jesus was operating that way, why why do we think that we're supposed to be doing this all alone? That's crazy.

And but we live in a modern age now where Instagram and Tik Tok and Facebook, if you're like me and you're 50, like the 60, 70, 80, whatever. Anyway, um we think that that's the same thing as it and it is not.

It it feels like it's it's filling something, but then you go to a restaurant or a coffee shop and you feel weird because you're around humans and you're like, "This is weird." But also, I've got a thousand Instagram friends. I don't know. And it's not the same though.

And so we are meant to do life together and accountability is one million% the best way. And it's getting accountable with somebody that will call it out.

If we're not looking for honesty and being straight with each other, then there's a there's a deeper issue that needs to come that that needs to happen. And that's, you know, that issue of pride. It's it's hard. And and that's both sides of it.

That's pride over here that says I'm amazing and I'm awesome and nobody can ever tell me otherwise and I'm going to take over the world. And then over here you have I'm nothing. I'm worthless. Don't even try to tell me I'm good. These are the same. It's the same spectrum.

It's just opposite side ends. Both of them are speaking above God. Both of them are doing the opposite of what God says. God says to humble yourself. The prideful person is over here not humbling themselves. God says that I love you and that I've made you perfect and holy.

This person's over here is saying there's no way it's never going to happen. Both are wrong. Both are the same thing. It's just on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

And so, um, being able to be brave enough to ask for that accountability that side and like humble enough to ask for accountability side, that's hard. But if you can get that, my goodness, your life changes. It's wild.

Yeah.

Like wild. People think that they can like again, I think we talked about this earlier. People think they can figure out Jesus. You don't figure out Jesus. You get Jesus. He reveals himself to you. He gives himself to you. Like the Holy Spirit is given to us.

We don't get the Holy Spirit. It's given to us. You can't get scripture. It has to be revealed to you. You can read the same man. I don't know if this ever happened to you guys, but like I'll read the same scripture for years. I'll read it.

And then one day I'll read it and I'll weep for an hour because I never realized that it said that. Like like I I mean overwhelming like my life was transformed. My friend, she was she was uh came over to my house one day and she was just like, "I need to do my homework.

Can I do it out loud?" And I was like, "Yeah, sure." This is right before I went to the second ministry school that I went to and um I was an intern in the program and I was annoyed because I was a woman and I'm like, "How many internships, how many blah blah do I have to do before I'm just finally a pastor?" Like I was just annoyed with it cuz the cuz I went and asked if I could teach at the school and the guy's like we really would like for people to either have been in ministry for like so many years or have gone through the school and I was like okay he's like would you do another year and I was like

sure if the Lord told me but I was like I I was not planning on it. So anyway, that my friend came over.

She was in that school and she sat with me and she's like, "Can I do my Mac?" I was like, "Sure." And she was saying things that I had read 50 times and um for the first time ever, it came alive and I sat there and I wept and cried my eyes out because for the first time ever, I felt like I like I saw Jesus fully

and um and after that, the Holy Spirit was like, "If you'll trust me, give me a year." And I ended up staying in the school for three years. And then I worked for it for about six. But it was and it was worth it.

Um I the the the encounters that I had with the Lord there for so hard I don't know I just so hardcore I I can't even even we we could have 65 podcast on it but um but that truth just the truth and understanding that like that his kingdom was brought here that he came and that it's here and that it's for all of us and we're meant to be free.

We're meant to be alive. We're meant to be doesn't mean everything's going to be perfect.

And I think that's I think when you were talking about that in the intro, I think that's the biggest thing is that when you get saved and you get free from something, you think that there's this this magical feeling that happens and then all of a sudden you're just free.

When God's Answer Isn't the One You Wanted

That's it. It's not the way that's not the way it works. It's always going to be knocking at the door. It's just whose knock are you going to answer?

Because Jesus is also knocking at the door. It says that in Revelation 3 that he comes to the door and he knocks. Anybody who who opens, he will come in and sit down with him and have dinner with him. But you're not going to open the door if it's an unfamiliar voice.

So once again, that comes back to intimacy. If you know him, that freedom is for you because you trust him. And then if you're with other people who also know him and love him, really love him, not people who are doing the like

like and not in a judgmental way, but there's there's just depths of relationship, right? You've got mothers of the faith, ch children of the faith, fathers of faith, things like that. And so finding the right people and you have that accountability.

Yeah.

You're just setting yourself up for the enemy to just have to try to get you get at you different ways because he can't have that, you know. So,

well, as far as scripture goes, I mean, I just like you were saying, it's understanding. It's different points in your life. It's having more knowledge. You become a lot more receptive to things and they just

hit you completely different than they would have a few years ago. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a It's my favorite thing is I mean, obviously it is because it's the Lord like revealing himself to us even more, but it says in um Psalm 37 or No, Proverbs. I was

You don't even need your Bible. It's just soft. It's Proverbs. It's Proverbs 27 or 25. I think it's Proverbs 25. Let me just check. But anyway, it's one of my favorite scriptures because it says um it is the glory of God to hide a matter.

It's the glory of kings to seek a matter out. And I love that scripture because it's it's the Lord is literally like he's like, "Listen, I hid myself. I'm here. Come find me. I'm not going anywhere. I'm waiting." Yeah. It's 25. It's 252.

It's the glory of God to conceal a matter, but the glory of kings to search a matter out. And so like he hides listen it's it's not a game but it is a game you know it's like it's like uh it's like hideand seek but like in a fun sweet way.

He's like I've hidden myself come find me. And he says that too in Matthew 7. Um in Matthew 7 it says it three times in one verse. He says seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be open to you. Ask and it'll be open to you. He is lit like he's just yelling at us.

He's like guys if you just come look just come for two seconds. I promise I'm going to meet you there. I'm like I'm there. I swear. But we don't. We I don't know if it's because we're afraid he won't.

Even though he's good on his word and he said a like a billion times that he would. Um but he but he meets us. He really does. And it might it might not look how we want it to.

That's the other thing too is that if you're only looking for one result, that's the blessed is the pure heart, right? Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. They see God in everything.

If you're only looking for one single answer, the the answer that he's offering, if it doesn't look appetizing, you're going to look past it. You're going to be like

I think that's the hard part. Sometimes we kind of blind ourselves because of what we expect,

right? Yeah. And and some things he will give us. Some things we'll pray for and he'll be like, "Yeah, that's yours." And then some things we don't know how a parent acts, right?

Like some things I remember my parents, they used to get so mad at us if we would walk across a big street. And I didn't think anything. I was like 11. I was 11, but my mom, she was very, she got paranoid about stuff like that. And um I remember just being annoyed that I was 11.

All my other friends could walk across the street, but I wasn't allowed to walk across the street unless my mom came with me. And it was so annoying. And then I had my um I had Andrea's kids and I was we were we were going to the park and we were walking through.

It was it was just a parking lot, but there was a car that I could tell was not really paying attention and one of her kids was kind of taking off. And I like kind of I had to call his name out and grabbed him back and then you know it was fine. And I remember that moment.

I remember my mom yelling at me and I went,

"Yeah, that's horrible. No one for my mom. He never wanted me." I was like that if that and he wasn't even my kid. Like that that would have been awful. Jesus does things and we just don't understand why. And it annoys us.

We're like, "What do you mean?" Like I look at my sister and her passing and it was horrible. It was a horrible thing and we saw some miraculous things happen. Listen, she died as a Christian.

So my sister Danielle did not know the Lord, but she found Jesus like like was studying his word, was telling me about things the Lord was showing her. And um she still died.

And now what I don't understand, which I may understand when I get to heaven, is that the Lord will show me if she had stayed, she would have lost what she connected to with me with. You know, that could have been it. Like I don't know.

I don't know why the Lord does what he does, you know? And that's for anybody listening. I'm not saying that's why he would ever take somebody. I'm just saying that we as a parent, you know that you have to make decisions that your kids hate.

Well, as a parent, as the Lord, God has situations that we can't see that he does.

So, when he doesn't say yes to the thing that we are sure it's going to be a yes, we have to come to terms with the fact that he remains good even though that yes wasn't the yes that we were looking for. He healed my sister. He just healed her to heaven.

I wanted it here on earth, you know? So, his answer was still good. It was just not the answer I was looking for. And so yeah, like honestly it's it's that sometimes it's it's tough because you want it to be the right thing. Like you want it not the right thing.

You want it to be the thing you want and the right thing may not be the thing that we want because we're blind because we don't realize that if we had that thing it would make us do this which would make us do this which would mean we would end up here, you know, because we don't have the foresight that foresight that God does.

And so

it's a hard thing.

Well, we're human with tiny brains and not much understanding.

Yeah. We're like we're so much smarter than birds. Are we are we smarter than birds? I don't even know if that's yours. I see some smart birds.

So, maybe someone listening has spent years asking, "Do God, do you really love me?" But scripture has already answered that question. Maybe today's question is, "Do I love you enough to trust you with this?"

So, what would you say to the person who loves Jesus, has surrendered their life to him, but is exhausted because they're still fighting something they thought would already be gone. Um, I would say that now a mental block has to be let go of. That's what I would say.

Winning the Mental Battle

Um, like we said earlier, the helmet of salvation, it's all in our it's all salvation is a mind game constantly. Um, and so I think that the next step would be learning how to have different language with it.

Um, so you know, um, for example, instead of saying, "Gh, I'm never going to be for free from this." It's saying, "Oof, I am free, but the temptations are overwhelming right now, so I'm going to keep working on getting through these temptations." Um, you had mentioned it a couple times before we started.

Uh, 2 Corinthians 10:5 says, "I take every thought captive through through the obedience of Jesus Christ." And so that is um that's a scripture that when I was first coming out of like the addiction to pornography and stuff that I would say every time I had a burnt um a burnt uh a burnt image popup.

So I would uh like you know a idea of porn would pop up and then I would stop and then I would just go capture that thought in the name of Jesus. Well when I first started I was saying it like 287 times a day because it was always there. So, I was just like, I catch that thought.

Now, I'll say it once every few months. I'll be like, "Nope, capture that thought. Nope, you don't. You still don't get to have room in my brain." It's it's changing your mindset. Um, you you've done all the the right things.

And like this brain is 50,000 times slower in processing than your spirit man is. So, your brain, your flesh is still like, "Oh, I really want this stuff." Even though your spirit man has said, "No, we're over this. We've move we're moving past this.

the Lord has given us freedom and peace and hope. So, we're good. Now, let's get through the mental part of it. And that's that's the work work. That's so like you can pray and the the the forgiveness is there. So, now it's that's where this accountability comes in.

That's where you do things like, you know, stop watching TV, reading books that will help you walk through it. Like one of the things I had was that just a horrible self-confidence issue, you know, like I mean most women do.

It's it's a tough thing for women, but um uh just being so big for so long and then not having a lot of friends, never getting married, you know, just all those things.

And then the spiritual abuse that I experienced with um the pastor that I had before, I just had such a low view of myself.

And I remember one time I was in a counseling session and my doctor said um she said, "What what kind of things do you say to yourself in your head?" You know, and I was like, "Well, I was like, "You're worthless. You're disgusting. Everybody thinks you are hideous.

Like why do you go in public?" You know, things like that.

She goes, "Oof." She was like, "Do you think that would be considered abusive if anybody ever said that to your face?" And I was like, "Yeah." And she goes, "Yeah." She was like, "So, you think maybe it's abusive that you're saying it to yourself?" And I was like,

"Yeah." And it was like one of those moments that I just ride my eyes out and I was like,

"What? What's happening right now?" I I couldn't believe it. I was just like, "What?" It it clear like something cleared. And from that moment from that moment, I was like like I was like, "I'm not going to talk to myself like this anymore." So I would stand. I did the thing.

You remember the little girl where she's like, "You're strong. You're brave in front of the mirror." Like affirmations.

Yeah. Yeah. This Yeah. But I had to do that because I didn't know how else to do it. And that was like kind of a popular video at the time.

So I was just like, "Okay." So I look at I would look in the mirror and I go, "You're beautiful." And then I would cry because I felt like a liar. And I would be like, "Lord, I know that you want me to say these things, but I can't. I hate myself.

I hate it." And then the Lord would use different people to say, you know, I feel like the Lord said that he just thinks you're so beautiful.

Or like I had one girl who was just like I feel like the Lord like you were praying this morning and I felt like the Lord was just like so happy that you were just sitting before him. He just loves being with you.

And all of a sudden I was like you are speaking to me through all these people and it began to change something fundamentally because once again changing that mindset allows me to see things differently. And then once again you know pure in heart we see God in everything.

So you learn how to listen for see those little things you know and so um that's what I would say. I would say that go ahead and start working on the mental game. The Lord the Lord has done it. The work has been done. Like we are free. We have to believe that.

We have to believe because he said he came to set the captives free. If you are surrendered to Christ, you are free, slave to him, free from sin. So if that's the case, then we have to believe that's true.

So then that means that there's got to be something more that we should do to get to that point and and that is believing it one that you know having that faith learning trying to figure out if you love him enough or love him more than not enough. Listen, you the Lord loves us.

We can't we can't earn his love by loving him more. But it's do you choose him? Do you choose to love him? I'm not saying that as like none of us are loving him enough. I'm saying like look at yourself real deep down. Is this what you really want? Do you really love him?

And if you don't become familiar with him because that's like that's the only way forward is that we have to be with him. And then and then understanding that that mental game part of it, remember the enemy, he's just

if he knows how to push the button, cocaine won't won't lead me, but my goodness, a gossip will like like and he knows he's been watching. He watches you like a hawk. Especially once you choose Jesus. Once you choose Jesus, you become, you know, maybe a threat.

And then as you get closer, he's like, "Okay, this person is actually like legit a threat." And so then he starts to do things that you're just like, "Why am I dealing with this right now? Holy moly." And not understanding that there is a very real enemy.

Now listen, and and this is a controversial thing sometimes, and that's fine. I'm so happy to talk to people about it, but like he does not make us sin. He cannot make you sin. He is not a puppet master.

That was like a popular thing back in like the early 2000s where, you know, they did these things called human videos.

And so there would be this scene where there's this guy dressed in all black and he's like doing this with his hands and then like people are like drinking because he makes them drink, you know, like then so this idea that that, you know, like, you know, the devil makes me do it.

He doesn't. I I actually think that there is a lot of things that we aren't even tempted by him anymore because we have given into it enough that it becomes something that we crave, not something he has to convince us to have. Which is why we're accountable for surrender.

We are the ones. It's not a magical power that all of a sudden we have freedom. It's that we look at him and we say, "I surrender to you. I lay all of these things down." And then he says, "I came to set the captives free." He breaks the chains.

Now, we can willingly pick the chains back up. We can willingly go, "Nah, I actually really like the way that feels. Happiness is scary. I don't want this. And then we pick it up and then and then we're like, why am I not free?

And we're like, well, because the joy is scary and you picked it back up again, so let's do it again, you know? And so um so I so it's it's uh I think completely possible, but it is it's a mental game.

Whose Knock Will You Answer

And it is it's important for people to understand that it's not just a magic potion kind of a thing. It's it's that we are partnered with him. He's he's in us. He's alive in us. But he didn't erase us. He doesn't want robots.

He wants people who are laying down, who say, "I absolutely want this over everything else." A robot is boring. I love talking to my um Echo, but when I ask my Echo certain questions, he just responds like a robot. Chat GPT.

When I ask him questions, he'll say it in a nicer voice because I've taught it how to say nicer things to me. But at the end of the day, uh chat GBT is not really actually making me feel good about myself. My husband, he chose me.

And so when he speaks to me, it melts everything inside of me because he chose me. Think about that. You know, Jesus, he wants us not because we're afraid to go to hell. He wants us because we're in love with him. Yeah.

He wants us to look at him and say, "Jesus, I'm not asking you for anything right now. I just want to sit in your presence. I don't want you to. You don't have to speak. You don't say anything. I just want to sit here with you because you are my safest place.

Think that he's big and mean."

He's not. He is just so in love with us. And he wants us so much more than we want to be wanted. Like, we think it's that. And and and then if you would get into that relationship, the love relationship, and then it's mutual. Oh my goodness. It's just like a different world.

And so um and and a lot of that freedom will come if we understand he sees us that way too. Yeah. Like you know if he sees it's like you you know you you have kids. When your child was 2 years old and he started potty training you know he pooped in his pants sometimes.

Did you get mad?

A lot of times.

A lot of times. Sometimes maybe.

Yeah. Like you weren't

depending on where we were when it happened. I might have gotten a little mad.

Right. But you weren't angry at him like cuz he's two. He doesn't know he's train you're training him to not poop in in his diaper anymore. He's got to go to the bathroom, the body, and and he's two. Sometimes he makes it, sometimes he doesn't. It is what it is.

And that's and and you're fine with it. He you're not mad at him. The situation is not fun. But like he he's two. You can't be mad at a 2-year-old because he does. Now, if he was 15, still poop. That would be different. Then maybe there's a different conversation.

But but that's how that's how I believe that the Lord sees us with our sin. He we're looking at him and we think that we're supposed to be like Jesus Jesus stature at this point. We're supposed to be walking and all the and he's just looking at us.

going, "Guys, it's fine." Like, it's okay. Do we need to continue to pursue sin? No. But is his forgiveness so big and beautiful that we don't have to sit and wallow in um in an anxiety and and all of the things that come with it? Yes. He is that good.

He and and it is that for us. And so

I think just the whole idea of understanding freedom is so necessary in our faith. And I think like what you're saying like bringing dark to the light is something that's so necessary whether it's addiction or even just something where it's like a self-perception.

And I love that you were saying either way you go e if it's you're full of yourself to an extent or you feel like you're lacking in life just knowing that Jesus is going to meet you there every single time and knowing that if you do knock he will be there.

And so I want to end this podcast with this thought that the knock at the door isn't proof Jesus didn't set you free, but the question is who has the authority in the house now?

That's good.

So

yeah,

this has been a great conversation.

Yes.

Um, thank you guys for watching and please tune in next time for our next episode. Bye guys.

Bye guys. Lord, I just love you so much and it's such an honor to be yours. Such an honor to um sit in your presence with so many amazing people that are whether they're here in the studio or they're out um listening to this podcast or whatever it is.

Um right now, God, I just pray over every heart and mind. I pray, Father, that they would begin to see you like they never have before. I pray God that you would reveal yourself to those who are hungry for you, who are thirsty for you.

Lord, I pray for um those who are living in guilt and condemnation and just all of these awful things that can come with um having that that that mindset that we're not free.

And I just ask, Father, that you would give them they open their eyes and ears to see heaven, to see what you're doing, and to see your truth, and to recognize that your power is bigger and better than anything that the enemy can bring forward.

Your power is bigger and better than any um addiction of our flesh, anything that we deal with. Lord, you are bigger. You are better. Your power is greater. And so Lord, we just pray um over those situations.

Father, for the person that's listening that um they're constantly saying to themselves, I it can be it can be that way for everyone but me. Lord, I pray that you would that you would show the but me.

I pray God that you would show them that you are there with them, that you are thinking of them, God, and that you are walking with them and that they do have the ability to lay down what they have so that they might be able to pick up you.

I ask that you would help us to reach more, God, more people to see freedom, more people to see truth, more people to understand you and your ways and how good you are. And um that you would just bless everything that uh that happens here. And so we just love you.

We thank you in Jesus name. Amen.

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